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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Russia vows to treat US jets in Syria as 'targets' ... (Read 2,334 times)
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Re: Russia vows to treat US jets in Syria as 'targets' ...
Reply #10 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 12:56pm
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The Original Wally wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 10:46am:
Yes, it is time for a new strategy. 

   *  How do you view the coalition of 50 Arab (Muslim) Nations that Trump is trying to build and the policy of them taking the lead in ridding the Middle East of Islamic Etremeism?

   *   now Putin has drawn his Red Line in Syria, do you think it's time to pull our forces out?  or do you think that Putin would pull a Hitler and take another country, (like Hitler did when Europe allowed him to take "the Sudatenland" and  then czechoslovakia .the rest is history...goodbye Europe!



Honestly, I don't think much of it. Making alliances with ME nations amounts to us give them aide in terms of money and military equipment with very little in return.

Syria will never be a friend of the U.S. regardless of what Putin does or doesn't do.

I've seen enough in my lifetime to begin to question these alliances with nations that purport to be our friends but just want what's in it for them.

I'm not suggesting isolationism but more of a MYOB policy if it doesn't affect us directly.

All we really ever wanted was their oil supplies. Now...not so much any longer nor do we really need them.
« Last Edit: Jun 19th, 2017 at 1:20pm by Abe »  
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Re: Russia vows to treat US jets in Syria as 'targets' ...
Reply #11 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 2:06pm
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Abe wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 12:56pm:
Honestly, I don't think much of it. Making alliances with ME nations amounts to us give them aide in terms of money and military equipment with very little in return.

Syria will never be a friend of the U.S. regardless of what Putin does or doesn't do.

I've seen enough in my lifetime to begin to question these alliances with nations that purport to be our friends but just want what's in it for them.

I'm not suggesting isolationism but more of a MYOB policy if it doesn't affect us directly.

All we really ever wanted was their oil supplies. Now...not so much any longer nor do we really need them.

I think you are right  Syria is Russia's friend, just as N Korea is China's friend  They may become friendlier towards us, but that depends on the Superpowers that influence them.

What's in our interst and the interest of the Western Democracies, is to get a foothold in the Middle East so we can kill those who are exporting Terror to our homeland and around the world

I do not agree with "nation building"  I would much rather see us do as we did in Gulf War I when Schwartzkofff stopped short of invading Bahgdad becasue all our objectives had been achieved and he didn't allow us to get caught up in "mission creep"  This is exactly what happened in Iraq and what has been happening in Afghanistan

The Gulf States need to clean their own houses and then take care of their own backyard.  They can not do it without our Assistance, especially since Putin has placed his heavy thumb on the scale on the side of Assad and Iran!

It's a Mess!  We're damned if we do and damned if we don't.  I fear we will be far more damned if we don't eliminate the World Wide threat of Islamic Terrorism, though and we can not only play defense!
  

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Re: Russia vows to treat US jets in Syria as 'targets' ...
Reply #12 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 2:11pm
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The Original Wally wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 2:06pm:
I do not agree with "nation building"

If you want to escalate the conflict, which means we send in more U.S. troops and "Americanize" the conflict, putting ourselves in direct conflict with Russia and Iran, and then don't establish a stable regime in Syria: you're just going to have the same problem we have had in Iraq post-Sadaam and what we have in Afghanistan. 

Quote:
I would much rather see us do as we did in Gulf War I when Schwartzkofff stopped short of invading Bahgdad becasue all our objectives had been achieved and he didn't allow us to get caught up in "mission creep"  This is exactly what happened in Iraq and what has been happening in Afghanistan

What happened in Iraq and Afghanistan and Iraq wasn't mission creep; it was the result of poor policies (e.g., de-Baathification) and poor preparation (e.g., not having enough troops to occupy the country).
  
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Re: Russia vows to treat US jets in Syria as 'targets' ...
Reply #13 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 3:23pm
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One way to reduce the threat of Islamic terrorism would be to stop destabilizing Muslim nations.

Another idea would be to stop arming and funding "moderate" rebels.

Also, these multi-billion dollar weapons deals strike me as counterproductive.
« Last Edit: Jun 19th, 2017 at 3:42pm by TowardLiberty »  

"Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist." J M Keynes

"In the first place, the dichotomy between "theoretical" and "practical" is a false one. In economics, all arguments are theoretical. And, since economics discusses the real world, these theoretical arguments are by their nature "practical" ones as well." M Rothbard
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Re: Russia vows to treat US jets in Syria as 'targets' ...
Reply #14 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 3:38pm
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The Original Wally wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 2:06pm:
I think you are right  Syria is Russia's friend, just as N Korea is China's friend  They may become friendlier towards us, but that depends on the Superpowers that influence them.

What's in our interst and the interest of the Western Democracies, is to get a foothold in the Middle East so we can kill those who are exporting Terror to our homeland and around the world

I do not agree with "nation building"  I would much rather see us do as we did in Gulf War I when Schwartzkofff stopped short of invading Bahgdad becasue all our objectives had been achieved and he didn't allow us to get caught up in "mission creep"  This is exactly what happened in Iraq and what has been happening in Afghanistan

The Gulf States need to clean their own houses and then take care of their own backyard.  They can not do it without our Assistance, especially since Putin has placed his heavy thumb on the scale on the side of Assad and Iran!

It's a Mess!  We're damned if we do and damned if we don't.  I fear we will be far more damned if we don't eliminate the World Wide threat of Islamic Terrorism, though and we can not only play defense!



We will never get a foothold in the ME because we aren't wanted there, have no business there and frankly, it's not our job.

As to exporting terror, I have no doubt some of the greatest danger comes from those who aren't even physically in the ME. I tend to agree with TL's post (above).
  
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Re: Russia vows to treat US jets in Syria as 'targets' ...
Reply #15 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 4:02pm
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Abe wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 3:38pm:
We will never get a foothold in the ME because we aren't wanted there, have no business there and frankly, it's not our job.

As to exporting terror, I have no doubt some of the greatest danger comes from those who aren't even physically in the ME. I tend to agree with TL's post (above).

Do you think it's wise to allow ISIS to go unchecked?   Also, do you think it is wise to allow Putin to tale pver the Middle East?

ISIS  (Islamic State of Iraq and Syria) poured into Iraq out of Syria as soon as Obama removed all of our troops  Now ISIS is in more than 40 countries around the globe.  They are at war with us and they are not going to stop killing Americans and Europeans simply becasue we are drien out  Their stated goals are to establish a World Wide Caliphate under Shariah Law with all Infidels either converting to Islam of being exterrinated  Part of their twisted "faith" promises the land and riches plundered from the lands they conquer to their Followers!  (this includes slaves!!!)
  

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Re: Russia vows to treat US jets in Syria as 'targets' ...
Reply #16 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 4:04pm
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The Original Wally wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 4:02pm:
Do you think it's wise to allow ISIS to go unchecked?   Also, do you think it is wise to allow Putin to tale pver the Middle East?

ISIS  (Islamic State of Iraq and Syria) poured into Iraq out of Syria as soon as Obama removed all of our troops  Now ISIS is in more than 40 countries around the globe.  They are at war with us and they are not going to stop killing Americans and Europeans simply becasue we are drien out  Their stated goals are to establish a World Wide Caliphate under Shariah Law with all Infidels either converting to Islam of being exterrinated  Part of their twisted "faith" promises the land and riches plundered from the lands they conquer to their Followers!  (this includes slaves!!!)


You sort of answered your own question:

Quote:
Now ISIS is in more than 40 countries around the globe. 


Let's be honest no matter the denials our only interest in the ME has been predominately for it's oil. We've moved away from that and we will continue to become more energy independent.

If Putin wants the ME, I'm tempted to say, he can have it lock, stock and barrel...and the problems that come with it...and the costs associated with it.
  
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Re: Russia vows to treat US jets in Syria as 'targets' ...
Reply #17 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 4:07pm
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The Original Wally wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 4:02pm:
Do you think it's wise to allow ISIS to go unchecked?   Also, do you think it is wise to allow Putin to tale pver the Middle East?

Pulling our small number of troops out Syria doesn't equate to either of these. You can still check ISIS and address them as threat without becoming bogged down in Syria (particularly since they're a transnational threat). And if Russia and Iran become more deeply involved in Syria, then they're the targets of ISIS instead of us (e.g., recent ISIS attacks in Iran), which could lead to some rapprochement with both states at least on the issue of terrorism.
  
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Re: Russia vows to treat US jets in Syria as 'targets' ...
Reply #18 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 4:10pm
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Abe wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 4:04pm:
You sort of answered your own question:



Let's be honest no matter the denials our only interest in the ME has been predominately for it's oil. We've moved away from that and we will continue to become more energy independent.

If Putin wants the ME, I'm tempted to say, he can have it lock, stock and barrel...and the problems that come with it.

Our only intersest in ME oil is denying the use of that oil to ISIS , Assad (and possibly Putin).  The United States has become a net oil exporter, even under Obama (due to shale oil)  Trump is freeing up even more of the regulations, so we'll have even more oil  We don't need their oil, but our enemies do; so, yes, our being there is somewhat related to oil !  (we also have some geopolitical interests in seeing to it that our Allies in Europe who have no oil of their own, continue to have access to ME Oil.
  

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Re: Russia vows to treat US jets in Syria as 'targets' ...
Reply #19 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 4:12pm
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The Original Wally wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 4:10pm:
Our only intersest in ME oil is denying the use of that oil to ISIS , Assad (and possibly Putin).  The United States has become a net oil exportter,m even under Obama (due to shale oil)  Trump is freeing up even more of the regulations We don't need their oil, but our enemies do; so, yes, our being there is somewhat related to oil !


Sorry maybe I'm growing soft in my old age but we don't need to risk the lives of young Americans in combat to do that.

I'm morphing into a "worry about ourselves first, kindda guy".
  
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