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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Just for Fun (Read 671 times)
Abe
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Re: Just for Fun
Reply #10 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 2:23pm
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forgotten centrist wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 2:16pm:
In the context of a Republican letter to Iran, Limbaugh said that Kennedy sent a similar letter to Andropov in the 1980s that apologized for Reagan and begged the Soviets not to overreact. There is no evidence there ever was a letter from Kennedy. Limbaugh’s statement rests on a 1983 KGB memo that said there was a verbal overture from a friend of Kennedy's to meet with Andropov. Whether the memo was accurate or a KGB invention is deeply contested. We have a firm denial from the man who allegedly made the overture, and a Soviet archive researcher told us that memos of this sort are not always reliable. So Limbaugh was wrong about the letter, and spoke with great certainty about an event when its authenticity is very much in question.

Overall, we rate the claim False.


http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/mar/13/rush-limbaugh/limbau...



Nothing like a good old fashioned word parse when the letter is right there above.

Our ruling

"In the context of a Republican letter to Iran, Limbaugh said that Kennedy sent a similar letter to Andropov in the 1980s that apologized for Reagan and begged the Soviets not to overreact. There is no evidence there ever was a letter from Kennedy. Limbaugh’s statement rests on a 1983 KGB memo that said there was a verbal overture from a friend of Kennedy's to meet with Andropov. Whether the memo was accurate or a KGB invention is deeply contested. We have a firm denial from the man who allegedly made the overture, and a Soviet archive researcher told us that memos of this sort are not always reliable. So Limbaugh was wrong about the letter, and spoke with great certainty about an event when its authenticity is very much in question."

Overall, we rate the claim False.
  
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Re: Just for Fun
Reply #11 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 2:23pm
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forgotten centrist wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 2:16pm:
In the context of a Republican letter to Iran, Limbaugh said that Kennedy sent a similar letter to Andropov in the 1980s that apologized for Reagan and begged the Soviets not to overreact. There is no evidence there ever was a letter from Kennedy. Limbaugh’s statement rests on a 1983 KGB memo that said there was a verbal overture from a friend of Kennedy's to meet with Andropov. Whether the memo was accurate or a KGB invention is deeply contested. We have a firm denial from the man who allegedly made the overture, and a Soviet archive researcher told us that memos of this sort are not always reliable. So Limbaugh was wrong about the letter, and spoke with great certainty about an event when its authenticity is very much in question.

Overall, we rate the claim False.


http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/mar/13/rush-limbaugh/limbau...


oops on big bad ted, but more than enough proof on nixon


Limbo is such an honest liar
  

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Abe
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Re: Just for Fun
Reply #12 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 2:25pm
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billy.pilgrim wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 2:23pm:
oops on big bad ted, but more than enough proof on nixon


Limbo is such an honest liar


We're aren't talking about Limbaugh. Never mentioned him. FC did. The letter is there. The signature is on it and no one said Kennedy sent the letter himself.

Because we all know a Senator would never go through an intermediary on a issue like this one. Roll Eyes

« Last Edit: Jun 19th, 2017 at 2:38pm by Abe »  
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Abe
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Re: Just for Fun
Reply #13 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 2:30pm
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billy.pilgrim wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 2:20pm:
Kinda anal-like to cut and paste from different threads

This thread is about others who as private citizens conspired with our enemies to help their personal prospects.

I could care less if he's dead. Prosecute his name. Drag it through mud and court


Why because it exposes you? Sorry.  You are what you are and it is what you do...and as recently as today.

Sort of like you replying with tangents to topics when you really have no direct reply to an issue.  You do that too all the time. Not just me that has told you that.

You came to this thread.  No one forced you and no matter what the other thread is about...it doesn't change what you do.

Nice tangent...AGAIN!!!  Did I say to prosecute him?  You really ought to try staying on topic or better yet not replying when you have nothing to add.





billy.pilgrim wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 2:23pm:
oops on big bad ted, but more than enough proof on nixon


Limbo is such an honest liar


Anyone talking about Nixon here?

You're the first guy to whine when people make any references to Clinton or Obama yet you're also the first to use examples re: Nixon, Reagan and Booosh.

Give it a rest before you derail another thread and end up banned...AGAIN.


  
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Re: Just for Fun
Reply #14 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 3:04pm
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Abe wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 2:23pm:
Nothing like a good old fashioned word parse when the letter is right there above.


Not sure what you're saying.  That Limbaugh's arguments are irrelevant?  He made the same arguments you're making.  Tunney denied it.  The only remaining evidence is an old KGB memo, which has had its reliability sharply disputed.
  

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Abe
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Re: Just for Fun
Reply #15 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 3:21pm
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forgotten centrist wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 3:04pm:
Not sure what you're saying.  That Limbaugh's arguments are irrelevant?  He made the same arguments you're making.  Tunney denied it.  The only remaining evidence is an old KGB memo, which has had its reliability sharply disputed.



Ted Kennedy Sent a Secret Letter to the Soviets in 1983 – Truth!

Summary of eRumor:

Ted Kennedy asked leaders of the Soviet Union to help the Democrats defeat President Reagan in the 1984 presidential election in a secret letter that he sent in 1983.

The Truth:

This eRumor is true.

Sen. Ted Kennedy wrote the letter to Soviet General Secretary Yuri Andropov in 1983. In the letter, Kennedy reportedly talked about his concerns with U.S.-Soviet relations, and about President Reagan’s plan to deploy middle range nuclear weapons to Western Europe.



Ted Kennedy’s original letter to Soviet leaders hasn’t turned up. But Kennedy’s letter was discussed in a memo from KGB Head Viktor Chebrikov to Yuri Andropov that turned up in 1992.

That part is true. Now why would Chebrikov send that memo to Andropov and make reference to Kennedy?

Of course any parties involved would deny it including Kennedy if he were alive. I'm sure he would also say Mary Jo should have learned to swim as well.

Something took place.


https://www.truthorfiction.com/ted-kennedy-sent-a-secret-letter-to-the-soviets-i...



  
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Abe
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Re: Just for Fun
Reply #16 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 3:29pm
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Here's another "Mostly" False verdict but look at the reasons.

"Despite such public disagreements, the memoirs of Reagan’s disarmament negotiator Max Kampelman suggest that the administration appreciated the back-channel information conduit that Kennedy maintained with the Soviets.

Kampelman’s memoirs say he welcomed Kennedy’s contact with the Soviets and in 1985 Reagan approved the arrangement.

"I learned that the senator never acted or received information without informing the appropriate United States agency of official," Kampelman wrote.

Our ruling

Who’s to be believed? A couple of Washington politicos? The KGB? That’s a tough one.

Owens’ statement rests on a 1983 KGB memo. The memo says a friend of Kennedy’s had made a verbal overture for the senator to meet with Andropov as part of an effort to counter the Reagan administration’s position on nuclear disarmament.

The man who allegedly made the secret offering says the memo is completely false. Kennedy’s spokesman and Reagan’s disarmament negotiator have attested to the senator’s work behind the scenes with the Soviets, but neither says Kennedy worked secretly to undercut the President, as Owens claimed.

So given Tunney’s denial, Kampelman’s memoir, and also questions about the reliability of KGB memos in general, we rate Owens’ claim, Mostly False."

______________________________

Kenendy had a back channel  Cheesy Shocked, The memo between the two Soviets seem to indicate something transpired and naturally all parties deny it. What else would they do? Of course the memo can't be found but it does not mean that it never existed. Considering Kennedy was the bastion of integrity it's not hard to see him doing this. Ted Kennedy do something underhanded? Preposterous!

That's why the title of the thread is "Just for Fun".  Wink  See what happens when accusations are made but can't be proven or innuendo is used?

No matter. Ted is dead, so is Reagan and life goes on...

(By the way, I never said anything. Just made the post to see where it went.)


I hear Trump farted and reports say it didn't smell right.  Russian Dressing is being seen as the culprit.
« Last Edit: Jun 19th, 2017 at 3:58pm by Abe »  
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Re: Just for Fun
Reply #17 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 5:25pm
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Is this valid?

I scanned the OP citations and ignored all but the Forbes one, which appears to be an opinion piece. Don't recall the incident but wow! pretty sad! if true.
  

For too long have we sat under the thumb of mankind! The time has come to *oppose* that thumb!

A nothing burger!
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Abe
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Re: Just for Fun
Reply #18 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 5:30pm
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Mojo-Jojo wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 5:25pm:
Is this valid?

I scanned the OP citations and ignored all but the Forbes one, which appears to be an opinion piece. Don't recall the incident but wow! pretty sad! if true.



Mixed, I'd say.  Some sources naturally give it a "mostly false" but not entirely. Others say it happened.

One thing not disputed was that Kennedy had a back door channel to the Russians and it was known.
  
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Re: Just for Fun
Reply #19 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 7:03pm
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Abe wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 5:30pm:
Mixed, I'd say.  Some sources naturally give it a "mostly false" but not entirely. Others say it happened.

One thing not disputed was that Kennedy had a back door channel to the Russians and it was known.


Sounds more like one of those "Important if true!" news items to me.
  

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