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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Answers in Genesis (Read 3,192 times)
EF
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Re: Answers in Genesis
Reply #10 - Jul 20th, 2017 at 3:51pm
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BowHunter wrote on Jul 19th, 2017 at 7:23pm:
The ironic thing is that the people who say that the Earth is 10000 years old can't do anything with that. Only scientists can draw useful conclusions out of how old something is or how long a process takes. And the scientists, IE the people who find usefulness in dating, ALL believe that the Earth is billions of years old.


Ken Ham has scientists that disagree with those scientists.  So  not all of them do. 
  

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Re: Answers in Genesis
Reply #11 - Jul 20th, 2017 at 3:55pm
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Seawolf wrote on Jul 20th, 2017 at 11:40am:
Everyone of us have our "prejudice", though I think that is a very poor choice of words.  You are by no means an exception to how you categorize me.  Unfortunately you, as do most on this forum formulate an opinion, without discussions or questions and run with it as a matter of fact.  It happens every day by you and others, as well as myself, even though I am trying to not fall into that trap.  We all think our opinion is factual and are very biased towards our opinion. 

  I do not obsess over whether or not the earth is ten thousand or ten million years old, in the grand scheme of it all that is not what we are to be concerned about.  I have not been a life long Christian, I have said this to you before but you seem to ignore this.  So your remark to say I am incapable of seeing beyond my "prejudice" made me laugh.  Usually someone my age are already set in their ways and lifestyle and do not often radically change their lifestyle as both my wife and I did.  The problem is the lens you are looking through which is obviously tinted.  Everone is your enemy who dares to think different then you do.  Life just is not that simple.


I wondered why he picked on you about this.  I have never seen express a belief either way.  I agree with your statement which I have highlighted.  I am not a lifelong Christian either (no one is, when you get right down to it, but some  have been at it longer than others by starting earlier).  Have attended church regularly.  Have NEVER heard a sermon anywhere that indicated any age of the earth whatsoever.  Which is why I don't think many of those "young earthers" really have the "courage of their convictions." 
  

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EF
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Re: Answers in Genesis
Reply #12 - Jul 20th, 2017 at 3:56pm
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Running Deer wrote on Jul 19th, 2017 at 9:02pm:
It vastly differs by place.  In rural areas and small towns, it's totally normal.


And socially acceptable, probably.  But you won't hear it discussed much, if any. 
  

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Re: Answers in Genesis
Reply #13 - Jul 20th, 2017 at 4:16pm
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For Limey

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7613403.stm

I didn't read any of it, though.  Might go back and read some of it.  Might not.  And you can take that to the bank.
  

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Limey
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Re: Answers in Genesis
Reply #14 - Jul 20th, 2017 at 4:20pm
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EF wrote on Jul 20th, 2017 at 3:51pm:
Well, I was in my early 60's before I ran up on it, too.  And I was surprised.  And yes, there ARE people, intelligent people, who hold to that belief on this side of the pond.  Do a little googling on it.  Try Ken Ham, Answers in Genesis.

I won't go so far as to say they have the "courage of their convictions" to the extent that they make it public because I was not aware of it, really, until my early 60's.  And, as I say, I was surprised.  I know of two reverends, both intelligent men, who hold firmly to that belief and tell me that my failure to believe it is due to my "world view" that was formed by my "indoctrination" in earlier years. 

But they're there.  And I bet there are some in Merrye Olde England, too. 


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7613403.stm

From 2008 but there's more peppered about that Webnet thing.

Well I never


A small group of loonies here too.
  

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Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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Re: Answers in Genesis
Reply #15 - Jul 20th, 2017 at 4:28pm
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Limey wrote on Jul 20th, 2017 at 4:20pm:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7613403.stm

From 2008 but there's more peppered about that Webnet thing.

Well I never


A small group of loonies here too.


I did go back and read some of it.  Not all.  But enough to get the idea that the writer basically considers any sort of Creationist belief and a belief in Evolution to be mutually exclusive.  They are not mutually exclusive.  As I mentioned elsewhere, there are more than a few "theistic evolutionists."  They believe in a Creator God who chose to use (and guided) the process of evolution to create species. 

Most people simply don't want to discuss it with anybody who does not believe as they do.  I am pretty much among that group, having discussed it so much with people who do not believe as I do.  I freely admit there are things that I don't know and will never understand, and that there are probably things that are simply unknowable.

I do believe in a Creator simply because I see the Creation.  Some say it's not a "creation."  I say okay.  But it came from somewhere.  And if it came from the explosion of a "singularity of infinite density" that is still expanding, from the force of that explosion, into a nothing that is neither matter, time, nor space  (two of which, space and time, came into existence at the time of the explosion and the third of which, matter, was in that "singularity"), I say fine.  Where did that singularity come from?  I say a Creator that exists outside of time and space (which came into being at the moment of the explosion) and is not material (that is, made of matter) made it.  How?  I don't know.  But what other explanation is there that doesn't require even more suspension of disbelief?
  

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Seawolf
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Re: Answers in Genesis
Reply #16 - Jul 20th, 2017 at 4:45pm
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EF wrote on Jul 20th, 2017 at 3:55pm:
I wondered why he picked on you about this.  I have never seen express a belief either way.  I agree with your statement which I have highlighted.  I am not a lifelong Christian either (no one is, when you get right down to it, but some  have been at it longer than others by starting earlier).  Have attended church regularly.  Have NEVER heard a sermon anywhere that indicated any age of the earth whatsoever.  Which is why I don't think many of those "young earthers" really have the "courage of their convictions." 

He's just being Wad.   Wink
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Answers in Genesis
Reply #17 - Jul 20th, 2017 at 5:23pm
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EF wrote on Jul 20th, 2017 at 3:51pm:
Well, I was in my early 60's before I ran up on it, too.  And I was surprised.  And yes, there ARE people, intelligent people, who hold to that belief on this side of the pond.  Do a little googling on it.  Try Ken Ham, Answers in Genesis.

I won't go so far as to say they have the "courage of their convictions" to the extent that they make it public because I was not aware of it, really, until my early 60's.  And, as I say, I was surprised.  I know of two reverends, both intelligent men, who hold firmly to that belief and tell me that my failure to believe it is due to my "world view" that was formed by my "indoctrination" in earlier years. 

But they're there.  And I bet there are some in Merrye Olde England, too. 



It all depends on how you define intelligence, actually. If intelligence is among other things the capability of understanding the basic laws of nature then these people you're thinking so highly of, are dumber than a pile of rocks.
  

A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
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Re: Answers in Genesis
Reply #18 - Jul 20th, 2017 at 5:24pm
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EF wrote on Jul 20th, 2017 at 3:51pm:
Ken Ham has scientists that disagree with those scientists.  So  not all of them do. 



We may not share the same definition of scientists.
  

A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
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Re: Answers in Genesis
Reply #19 - Jul 20th, 2017 at 5:27pm
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EF wrote on Jul 20th, 2017 at 4:28pm:
I did go back and read some of it.  Not all.  But enough to get the idea that the writer basically considers any sort of Creationist belief and a belief in Evolution to be mutually exclusive.  They are not mutually exclusive.  As I mentioned elsewhere, there are more than a few "theistic evolutionists."  They believe in a Creator God who chose to use (and guided) the process of evolution to create species. 

Most people simply don't want to discuss it with anybody who does not believe as they do.  I am pretty much among that group, having discussed it so much with people who do not believe as I do.  I freely admit there are things that I don't know and will never understand, and that there are probably things that are simply unknowable.

I do believe in a Creator simply because I see the Creation.  Some say it's not a "creation."  I say okay.  But it came from somewhere.  And if it came from the explosion of a "singularity of infinite density" that is still expanding, from the force of that explosion, into a nothing that is neither matter, time, nor space  (two of which, space and time, came into existence at the time of the explosion and the third of which, matter, was in that "singularity"), I say fine.  Where did that singularity come from?  I say a Creator that exists outside of time and space (which came into being at the moment of the explosion) and is not material (that is, made of matter) made it.  How?  I don't know.  But what other explanation is there that doesn't require even more suspension of disbelief?
Not to start a big discussion of the point, but the usual response to someone who says there has to be a creator, is to ask, ok then who created the creator? And if you respond No one, and can accept that, then why not accept that no one created the universe. In others words, you're allowing "no creator" to be an acceptable answer in one situation but not the other. But even when you opt for the big C Creator, that really doesn't get you anywhere. This is where Deism comes in. Ok let's just say there had to be a Creator. The best we can do beyond that is to say It kicked off the Big Bang, created some set of physical laws, and let'r rip. There's no way to go from there to the god of your bible other than to just be dogmatic about it and nothing more. Depending on your upbringing, or maybe the cultures you've been exposed to, someone who believes in a big C creator or creators just tend to go with what they've been told. Then being intelligent, like Seawolf, find ways to rationalize their particular mythology as THE story and not mythology. Buddhists do it. Hindus do it, Jews, Muslims, Christians, everybody. It's only natural to want to be special. For me personally there's nothing wrong with that UNTIL one of those groups tries to take things beyond personal belief, and impose their story on others. Then things go wrong.

And this relates to the thread discussing the founders of USA being religious. They agreed with me (he he) in thinking religion is fine as long as it's not the basis of tyranny like it was in England. That's why they sought to keep religion personal and out of the public sphere. And if you're religious, I would think you'd agree, in an opposite respect. You wouldn't want government intruding into your personal beliefs AS LONG AS YOU KEEP THEM PERSONAL. Christians seem to have a problem with that. BUt that's a different thread.

Back to you Bob...
« Last Edit: Jul 20th, 2017 at 5:35pm by Muckster »  
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