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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Do You Believe In God Or Creator? (Read 4,790 times)
BowHunter
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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #10 - Aug 14th, 2017 at 1:26am
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EF wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 10:12pm:
I don't believe you have done that.  I know YOU believe it, though.


That's not a counter argument. That's just you saying that you disagree with me. In fact, there's a good chance that you don't even understand it. At any rate you haven't said anything that could convince me or any rational person that you do. The problem with you, SW and many others is that you don't really base your beliefs on anything resembling reasoning even from a distance. Your belief that the earth is old for example is no more based on reason than SW's in a young earth. There's no more system in what you believe than there is in what he does.
  

Non sequitur:

The Wet Dreams of Mr Cousteau wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
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Luther
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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #11 - Aug 14th, 2017 at 5:09am
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BowHunter wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 12:10pm:
No.

Because if something finite and finitely complex has as a small but finite probability to happen by itself

something infinite and infinitely complex has as infinitely small probability to happen by itself.

What's infinitely small? Zero.

When faced with two eventualities, always choose the one that's not impossible.

That's always seemed reasonable to me.

Of course, there are many other reasons but that one pretty much seals the deal for me.



Some pretty fancy words there sir Wink
  

All throughout our American history, world history, "ordinary people can do extraordinary things"
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Luther
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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #12 - Aug 14th, 2017 at 5:12am
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Limey wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 12:50pm:
No, but I am the product of 1500 years of continuous Christianity, and I feel a little uneasy (balanced with excited) about what comes next.

Discussions on LNF have modified my views somewhat.

The British boards just don't discuss religion, as a thing in itself.

Yes, the similar propaganda-victim hysteria about Islam and cultural concerns about the Church fading.


Talking with Rick, Writer's Block,  Elmer,  Mfa, Frank1 and Mike Gloster -and of course Seawolf - I have moved.
I was pretty much an atheist but now I am pretty much an atheist prepared to stand in Deist shoes to feel the fit.

My reasons for not believing are that, fundamentally I see belief as wishful thinking on the part of those who really really want there to be a God so they invent one.

Dawkins explores this very well but essentially that's it.
I am suspicious that the God we have is more or less the one we want, psychologically and indeed politically.



Quote:
I was pretty much an atheist but now I am pretty much an atheist prepared to stand in Deist shoes to feel the fit.



So are you or are you not a Deist?

After being a Christian I have become a Deist
  

All throughout our American history, world history, "ordinary people can do extraordinary things"
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BowHunter
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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #13 - Aug 14th, 2017 at 9:17am
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Luther wrote on Aug 14th, 2017 at 5:12am:
So are you or are you not a Deist?

After being a Christian I have become a Deist


You know if you had become a deist at an opportune moment and it saved the day, you could be called a "deist ex machina"... Grin
  

Non sequitur:

The Wet Dreams of Mr Cousteau wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
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Freon_Bale
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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #14 - Aug 14th, 2017 at 12:52pm
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Hi Everyone, did not know this forum was even here until someone referenced it in LNF. Thank you!

I am Jewish, but if you go to any temple and ask a Rabbi how many of the congregants believe in G-d, you will probably get an answer of 20-25% tops. Not only is this normal, it has nothing to do with being a good Jew. But I will save that for another conversation, if anyone is interested.

I started out Agnostic, which for me meant an openness to believing in everything if but a single shred of proof was provided. As a scientist (most of whom are either Agnostic or Atheist), this seemed like the most intelligent approach.

Problem was that in my early twenties, I realized that the 'dumb believers', who at the time I looked down upon, were happier than me. How could this be? What did they have that I did not? What was I missing?

I am a scientist, so I do not care what the answer to a puzzle is, even if it disagrees with the most basic of my premises of the world, I want to know.

In the end, the answer was simple. Faith, which I define as belief without proof, is a choice. The reason to choose it is to provide ourselves with the most powerful coping tool our brains are capable of. WHAT we believe in is irrelevant. It is the act of convincing ourselves that something unproveable is true, that confers the ability. Further, since an intelligent mind resists the unproveable, yet desires the ability (faith), it turns having Faith into a skill which must be practiced through classical conditioning (repeatedly telling one's self they believe, following religious structures and traditions, etc) to be effective. In other words, merely deciding one day to believe in something (whatever that is) is not enough to gain the benefits of Faith. It must be practiced before it can be useful.

This is all summed up in a manifesto I wrote.
https://faithistmanifesto.blogspot.com/

So I believe that having Faith itself is very important, and I call those who have this belief to be Faithists. I am a Faithist Jew. Also a Faithist American, because I consider America a religion.
  
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BowHunter
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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #15 - Aug 14th, 2017 at 1:09pm
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There's a reason why this is called the opium of the people, you know?
  

Non sequitur:

The Wet Dreams of Mr Cousteau wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
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EF
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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #16 - Aug 14th, 2017 at 1:59pm
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BowHunter wrote on Aug 14th, 2017 at 1:26am:
That's not a counter argument. That's just you saying that you disagree with me. In fact, there's a good chance that you don't even understand it. At any rate you haven't said anything that could convince me or any rational person that you do. The problem with you, SW and many others is that you don't really base your beliefs on anything resembling reasoning even from a distance. Your belief that the earth is old for example is no more based on reason than SW's in a young earth. There's no more system in what you believe than there is in what he does.


I didn't posit it as a counter argument.  I posited it as an observation.  And my ability to understand complex subjects is at least as good as  yours.  Another observation.
  

non sumus stulti
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EF
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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #17 - Aug 14th, 2017 at 2:00pm
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Luther wrote on Aug 14th, 2017 at 5:12am:
So are you or are you not a Deist?

After being a Christian I have become a Deist


Most likely you never were a Christian, then. 
  

non sumus stulti
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BowHunter
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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #18 - Aug 14th, 2017 at 4:55pm
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EF wrote on Aug 14th, 2017 at 1:59pm:
I didn't posit it as a counter argument.  I posited it as an observation.  And my ability to understand complex subjects is at least as good as  yours.  Another observation.


And I "observe" that you are full of it and "posit" that you have no idea what you're talking about. As for your so called ability to understand complex subjects, all I can say about it is that if it exists at all, you hide it well.
  

Non sequitur:

The Wet Dreams of Mr Cousteau wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
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BowHunter
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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #19 - Aug 14th, 2017 at 4:58pm
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EF wrote on Aug 14th, 2017 at 2:00pm:
Most likely you never were a Christian, then. 


Oh yeah, the "no true Christian... " fallacy...
  

Non sequitur:

The Wet Dreams of Mr Cousteau wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
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