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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Do You Believe In God Or Creator? (Read 4,787 times)
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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #160 - Sep 10th, 2017 at 8:21pm
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BowHunter wrote on Sep 10th, 2017 at 4:16pm:
I disagree. I don't worship anything.



You commit to the Sacrament of Being Grouchy.
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #161 - Sep 11th, 2017 at 8:18pm
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EF wrote on Sep 10th, 2017 at 3:56pm:
Some atheists and agnostics bristle at the allegation that their beliefs (or lack thereof) constitute "religion," but Uncle Sugar treats them as if they were for many purposes.


Theists can be Muslim or Hindu or many other things.  Theism is a belief about a religion, not a religion itself.  So it is with atheism.

However, you can be discriminated against for not believing in God, just as you can be discriminated against for not recognizing Jesus as the Christ or Muhammad as the Messenger of God.  So atheists can be protected under religious discrimination laws.

The reverse would be true in an atheist society with a few religious theists.  People could be discriminated against for believing in a god or gods, and so "theism" could be treated under the discrimination laws, even though theism is not a religion itself.

Quote:
Everybody worships something.


False!
  

"If cousins, I would much prefer to marry one my Neanderthal relatives than a screeching chimpanzee which might bite my face off as has happened recently. Of course, chimps are not even a human species so procreation between humans and chimps is out of the question." - joe_christian, on sex
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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #162 - Nov 1st, 2017 at 3:51am
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Running Deer wrote on Aug 16th, 2017 at 7:43pm:
It doesn't.  The Watchmaker Argument goes something like this:

If you come across a watch in the woods, you can see in in its order and craftsmanship that it is not natural, like a rock.  The order and craftmanship are evidence that an  intelligence designed it.  The universe also has order, so that is evidence that an intelligence (God) designed it.

The Watchmaker Argument fails for a few reasons.

1. The first reason is to look at the watch:rock comparison.  The premise is that rocks are not the product of intelligence, but the watch is.  Then the argument wants to say that the universe - a collection of matter and energy - is somehow more like the intelligently-designed watch than the not-intelligently-designed rock.  That makes no sense.

2. The second problem is that we have a lot of different intelligently and not-intelligently designed things to help us categorize.  We know how bricks and stones differ, so we can tell which is designed and which is natural.  We know how watches and the shadow of a tree differ, so we know which timepieces are designed and which is natural.

But the universe isn't like anything else.  There's nothing else to compare it to.  We don't know how different a "designed" universe would look from a "non-designed" universe, so we can't develop any rules to help us decide whether our universe is designed or not.


The probability that intelligent life and consciousness just happened to spring up out of the bacteria and slime is remarkably small.  So to the odds that our universe would spontaneously come into existence with all the physical rules to allow life and then intelligent life.

While the idea that we were designed by some other consciousness  is simply more probable.  It's in fact far more probable that we are all actually simulations created by some other intelligence  to experiment with our nature or politics.  Cosmologist and mathematician Roger Penrose once attempted to calculate the probability that chance allowed the initial state of the universe and its entropy to be exactly ‘right’ to allow it to still exist now. His answer was 1 chance in 10^10^123, a probability so small as to effectively be zero.


You think, therefore your a simulation.  Physics has proven it. It's irrefutable and indefensible, like solipsism.  Out of the billions of stars that have potentially habitable planets in our just our own galaxy alone and we find no other forms of intelligent life, than we are a miracle of improbability.
« Last Edit: Nov 1st, 2017 at 5:55am by Capt. Lola B.S.C. »  

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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #163 - Nov 1st, 2017 at 5:03am
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Capt. Lola B.S.C. wrote on Nov 1st, 2017 at 3:51am:
The probability that intelligent life and consciousness just happened to spring up out of the bacteria and slime is remarkably small.  So to the odds that our universe would spontaneously come into existence with all the physical rules to allow life and then intelligent life.

While the idea that we were designed by some other consciousness  is simply more probable.  It's in fact far more probable that we are all actually simulations created by some other intelligence  to experiment with our nature or politics.  Cosmologist and mathematician Roger Penrose once attempted to calculate the probability that chance allowed the initial state of the universe and its entropy to be exactly ‘right’ to allow it to still exist now. His answer was 1 chance in 10^10^123, a probability so small as to effectively be zero.


You think, therefore your a simulation.  Physics has proven it. It's irrefutable and indefensible, like solipsism.  Out of the billions of stars that have potentially habitable planets in our just our own galaxy alone and we find no other forms of intelligent life, than we are a miracle of improbability.


Regardless of how slim you believe the probability of life appearing on itself to be, the probability of existence of a perfect being with magical powers who can do anything is infinitely smaller. It always strikes me as funny that people like you never address that part just as I am certain you won't this time.

Besides, if there is a magical being that can do anything including rewrite the laws of logic and nature then science is meaningless, studying the universe makes no sense, given that it's laws are not the product of logic but the whims of some infinitely bored magical super-being.


But don't let me interrupt your spouting.
  

Non sequitur:

The Wet Dreams of Mr Cousteau wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #164 - Nov 1st, 2017 at 6:31am
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Capt. Lola B.S.C. wrote on Nov 1st, 2017 at 3:51am:
The probability that intelligent life and consciousness just happened to spring up out of the bacteria and slime is remarkably small.  So to the odds that our universe would spontaneously come into existence with all the physical rules to allow life and then intelligent life.

While the idea that we were designed by some other consciousness  is simply more probable.  It's in fact far more probable that we are all actually simulations created by some other intelligence  to experiment with our nature or politics.  Cosmologist and mathematician Roger Penrose once attempted to calculate the probability that chance allowed the initial state of the universe and its entropy to be exactly ‘right’ to allow it to still exist now. His answer was 1 chance in 10^10^123, a probability so small as to effectively be zero.


You think, therefore your a simulation.  Physics has proven it. It's irrefutable and indefensible, like solipsism.  Out of the billions of stars that have potentially habitable planets in our just our own galaxy alone and we find no other forms of intelligent life, than we are a miracle of improbability.

Well said.  When you think about the mathematical odds of a single cell evolving into a specific life form, say mankind, what we forget is that it still requires two cells to roughly evolve around the time frame for in order to procreate, thus the odds double which makes it even more impossible.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #165 - Nov 1st, 2017 at 6:49am
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BowHunter wrote on Nov 1st, 2017 at 5:03am:
Regardless of how slim you believe the probability of life appearing on itself to be, the probability of existence of a perfect being with magical powers who can do anything is infinitely smaller. It always strikes me as funny that people like you never address that part just as I am certain you won't this time.

Besides, if there is a magical being that can do anything including rewrite the laws of logic and nature then science is meaningless, studying the universe makes no sense, given that it's laws are not the product of logic but the whims of some infinitely bored magical super-being.


But don't let me interrupt your spouting.


It's people like you,  Tongue, that don't actually read what I write that develop all sorts of bullshit theories about what I said or think.  I've said it more than once that belief in a creator or positing the possibility that we were created has absolutely nothing to do with that ancient iron age deity of immense cruelty that Abraham believed in.  Not a damn thing.

It is far more likely that we are computer simulations of an advanced civilization, maybe even our own.  Far more likely than some ancient God or even the notion that we evolved spontaneously.

Consider the exponential growth of our technology.  It's predicted and widely accepted that somewhere around the middle of this century, say 2050 or so, we'll have achieved immortality through technology.  Essentially the ability to upload our entire brains onto a backup drive of sorts.  People would upload their brains every morning, while brushing their teeth lets say.  If you're killed in a bus crash that afternoon, np, just download the copy of your brain in a robot, or a clones body using your own dna to make a new body.  I lean towards the idea of getting uploaded into robot bodies that will be far superior to our weak and feeble human bodies.

It's also more likely than not, that we are mere simulations.  Remember the computer game Pong?  Now consider the computer games we have today.  Infinitely more sophisticated and the simulation type role playing games and getting better every year.  Once we have enough computing power, we'll need a place to store all those brains and we're not going to just plop them onto some hard drive until we have a replacement body, but rather, we'll make elaborate computer simulations for the brains to "live" in.  There is intriguing evidence that suggests the universe we know, is in fact a computer simulation on a grand scale.  The multiverse is suggestive that there are multiple simulations going on simultaneously.  The beings that created our simulation could very well themselves be the simulations of other beings and it's simulations all the way down.  We already make simulations after all, how long before they're undetectable from real life, whatever that is?

Porn industry will be the main driver leading to artificial realities.  Porn started out as writing, than crude drawings, then pictures, then video and coming soon, interactive porn.   Cool

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/apr/22/what-if-were-living-in-a-comp...

As our technology grows, the boundary between reality and fiction will be erased.

You need to seriously open your mind to the possibilities.
« Last Edit: Nov 1st, 2017 at 1:32pm by Capt. Lola B.S.C. »  

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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #166 - Nov 1st, 2017 at 10:55am
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Capt. Lola B.S.C. wrote on Nov 1st, 2017 at 6:49am:
It's people like you that don't actually read what I write that develop all sorts of bullshit theories about what I said or think.  I've said it more than once that belief in a creator or positing the possibility that we were created has absolutely nothing to do with that ancient iron age deity of immense cruelty that Abraham believed in.  Not a damn thing.

It is far more likely that we are computer simulations of an advanced civilization, maybe even our own.  Far more likely than some ancient God or even the notion that we evolved spontaneously.

Consider the exponential growth of our technology.  It's predicted and widely accepted that somewhere around the middle of this century, say 2050 or so, we'll have achieved immortality through technology.  Essentially the ability to upload our entire brains onto a back drive of sorts.  People would upload their brains every morning, while brushing their teeth lets say.  If you're killed in a bus crash that afternoon, np, just download the copy of your brain in a robot, or a clones body using your own dna to make a new body.  I lean towards the idea of getting uploaded into robot bodies that will be far superior to our weak and feeble human bodies.

It's also more likely than not, that we are mere simulations.  Remember the computer game Pong?  Now consider the computer games we have today.  Infinitely more sophisticated and the simulation type role playing games and getting better every year.  Once we have enough computing power, we'll need a place to store all those brains and we're not going to just plop them onto some hard drive until we have a replacement body, but rather, we'll make elaborate computer simulations for the brains to "live" in.  There is intriguing evidence that suggests the universe we know, is in fact a computer simulation on a grand scale.  The multiverse is suggestive that there are multiple simulations going on simultaneously.  The beings that created our simulation could very well themselves be the simulations of other beings and it's simulations all the way down.  We already make simulations after all, how long before they're undetectable from real life, whatever that is?

Porn industry will be the main driver leading to artificial realities.  Porn started out as writing, than crude drawings, then pictures, then video and coming soon, interactive porn.   Cool

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/apr/22/what-if-were-living-in-a-comp...

As our technology grows, the boundary between reality and fiction will be erased.

You need to seriously open your mind to the possibilities.


My bet is that porn predates writing. Venus of Hohlefels and her huge hooters date back 35,000 years if you are a science believer. Not so far back for the hom sculers.






Your take on the future (and possibly the present) is right on track.
  

the wis-dum of acrhie
"I am sure Trump is like me."
"There is no capitalism under Obama’s rule. He is a fu8&^ communist."
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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #167 - Nov 1st, 2017 at 11:29am
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billy.pilgrim wrote on Nov 1st, 2017 at 10:55am:
My bet is that porn predates writing. Venus of Hohlefels and her huge hooters date back 35,000 years if you are a science believer. Not so far back for the hom sculers.






Your take on the future (and possibly the present) is right on track.


Right on Billy, you must have seen that same TED lecture I did.   Grin
  

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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #168 - Nov 1st, 2017 at 2:35pm
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Capt. Lola B.S.C. wrote on Nov 1st, 2017 at 11:29am:
Right on Billy, you must have seen that same TED lecture I did.   Grin


Art History classes in the early 70s, but there were mushrooms and I probably used the wrong reference.

The fertility dolls are the oldest carvings.
  

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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #169 - Nov 1st, 2017 at 2:47pm
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billy.pilgrim wrote on Nov 1st, 2017 at 2:35pm:
Art History classes in the early 70s, but there were mushrooms and I probably used the wrong reference.

The fertility dolls are the oldest carvings.


Did you know that the standard crucifix is likely an anachronism. Historians say that back in the time of Jesus people were actually crucified on Xes, meaning two beams of equal size crossed diagonally and the reason for adopting the liturgics cross as we know it is because of esthetic and also a clear resemblance to a dildo. A not too subtle reference to the god of fertility.
  

Non sequitur:

The Wet Dreams of Mr Cousteau wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
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