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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Do You Believe In God Or Creator? (Read 4,925 times)
Running Deer
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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #170 - Nov 1st, 2017 at 8:04pm
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Capt. Lola B.S.C. wrote on Nov 1st, 2017 at 3:51am:
The probability that intelligent life and consciousness just happened to spring up out of the bacteria and slime is remarkably small.  So to the odds that our universe would spontaneously come into existence with all the physical rules to allow life and then intelligent life.


How do you know? I don't mean that sarcastically.  I'm genuinely curious how you think you know the odds when we don't have much data.  We have exactly one inhabited planet in one solar system in one corner of one galaxy.  We've found only a few hundred other planets, all of them orbiting nearby stars in our own galaxy.  We haven't begun to find every planet in our own portion of the galaxy, let alone the whole galaxy, let alone other galaxies.  We really just don't have much information to go on, let alone enough to make any sort of determination of how likely the emergence of intelligent life is.  In some sense, it's like asking desert nomads, who have never seen snow or ice, to predict the NHL playoffs.

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While the idea that we were designed by some other consciousness  is simply more probable.


Given that we have no evidence of other intelligences and no idea how they could "design" us, how exactly is it more probable?

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Cosmologist and mathematician Roger Penrose once attempted to calculate the probability that chance allowed the initial state of the universe and its entropy to be exactly ‘right’ to allow it to still exist now. His answer was 1 chance in 10^10^123, a probability so small as to effectively be zero.


CERN has him beat: the universe shouldn't even exist!

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You think, therefore your a simulation.  Physics has proven it.


Physics, and science in general, never proves anything.  Science is about building useful models of the natural world.  Those models can be reliable or not, but they are not reality itself.  The map is not the territory.

I can say definitively that the idea that reality is a simulation is not at all proven, nor is it a very reliable model.  It may turn out to be a very reliable model, but it's not anywhere close yet.
  

"If cousins, I would much prefer to marry one my Neanderthal relatives than a screeching chimpanzee which might bite my face off as has happened recently. Of course, chimps are not even a human species so procreation between humans and chimps is out of the question." - joe_christian, on sex
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Running Deer
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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #171 - Nov 1st, 2017 at 8:12pm
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BowHunter wrote on Nov 1st, 2017 at 2:47pm:
Did you know that the standard crucifix is likely an anachronism. Historians say that back in the time of Jesus people were actually crucified on Xes, meaning two beams of equal size crossed diagonally and the reason for adopting the liturgics cross as we know it is because of esthetic and also a clear resemblance to a dildo. A not too subtle reference to the god of fertility.


People were crucified on all sorts of shapes, including straight poles, Ts, the cross, Xs, etc.  In the Third Servile War, which ended in 71 B.C., 6000 slaves who revolted and followed Spartacus were crucified along the Appian Way in south Italy.  The soldiers built the crosses in a variety of shapes to amuse themselves.

Thus, it's not an anachronism to think Jesus was crucified on the traditional cross shape.  It's totally plausible.  It also makes no sense to connect the cross shape with fertility gods, since the cross is about death.  (The resurrection is about life, not the crucifixion.)
  

"If cousins, I would much prefer to marry one my Neanderthal relatives than a screeching chimpanzee which might bite my face off as has happened recently. Of course, chimps are not even a human species so procreation between humans and chimps is out of the question." - joe_christian, on sex
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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #172 - Nov 2nd, 2017 at 1:17am
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Running Deer wrote on Nov 1st, 2017 at 8:12pm:
People were crucified on all sorts of shapes, including straight poles, Ts, the cross, Xs, etc.  In the Third Servile War, which ended in 71 B.C., 6000 slaves who revolted and followed Spartacus were crucified along the Appian Way in south Italy.  The soldiers built the crosses in a variety of shapes to amuse themselves.

Thus, it's not an anachronism to think Jesus was crucified on the traditional cross shape.  It's totally plausible.  It also makes no sense to connect the cross shape with fertility gods, since the cross is about death.  (The resurrection is about life, not the crucifixion.)


In the entire scripture, there isn't a single indication as to the shape of the cross, not one! So the shape that's given to the cross is the result of a guess and a bad one at that since it's a very unlikely one. Besides, you forget, or didn't know, that orgasm is associated with death in many a culture, in fact in French it is even called "petite mort" meaning little death. So death is not disassociated with sex as you seem to imply. Reality is often more complicated than you think, based on the Manichean way you go about pretty much anything including things that are nothing but nuance. Stop being so damn simplistic.
  

Non sequitur:

The Wet Dreams of Mr Cousteau wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
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Seawolf
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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #173 - Nov 2nd, 2017 at 6:55am
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John 20:25
So the other disciples were saying to him, “We have seen the Lord!” But he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.”

If the “Crux Simplex” was used to crucify Jesus, he would likely have had his hands nailed in place with a single stake. Thomas, however, asked to see the holes from the nails (plural) used to pin Jesus’ hands. Once again, this infers Jesus’ cross would have to have been either a “Crux Commissa,” a “Crux Immissa,” or a “Crux Decussata” to require more than one nail for Jesus’ hands. Finally, a clue in the Gospels of Mathew and Luke may help us determine which of these three forms was actually employed. The Gospel authors described the placement of the sign identifying Jesus at the point of crucifixion:

Matthew 27:37
And above His head they put up the charge against Him which read, “THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS.”

Luke 23:38
Now there was also an inscription above Him, “THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.”

Only one of the three forms of cross inferred from John’s Gospel would be properly shaped to allow for the placement of this sign above Jesus’ head. The traditional “Crux Commissa” is the best inference.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #174 - Nov 2nd, 2017 at 8:16am
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Seawolf wrote on Nov 2nd, 2017 at 6:55am:
John 20:25
So the other disciples were saying to him, “We have seen the Lord!” But he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.”

If the “Crux Simplex” was used to crucify Jesus, he would likely have had his hands nailed in place with a single stake. Thomas, however, asked to see the holes from the nails (plural) used to pin Jesus’ hands. Once again, this infers Jesus’ cross would have to have been either a “Crux Commissa,” a “Crux Immissa,” or a “Crux Decussata” to require more than one nail for Jesus’ hands. Finally, a clue in the Gospels of Mathew and Luke may help us determine which of these three forms was actually employed. The Gospel authors described the placement of the sign identifying Jesus at the point of crucifixion:

Matthew 27:37
And above His head they put up the charge against Him which read, “THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS.”

Luke 23:38
Now there was also an inscription above Him, “THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.”

Only one of the three forms of cross inferred from John’s Gospel would be properly shaped to allow for the placement of this sign above Jesus’ head. The traditional “Crux Commissa” is the best inference.


It's been proven since that it's impossible to crucify someone by nailing their hands. The nail very quickly slips through and the person would fall forward and then on the ground. So that part of the "testimony" has been proven to be a complete lie. And don't tell me that that wasn't the intent because all old crucifix show Jesus with nails in his hands and nothing else to keep him there.

Here's an example:




See? Nails in hands... not possible!
  

Non sequitur:

The Wet Dreams of Mr Cousteau wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
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billy.pilgrim
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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #175 - Nov 2nd, 2017 at 10:34am
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BowHunter wrote on Nov 2nd, 2017 at 8:16am:
It's been proven since that it's impossible to crucify someone by nailing their hands. The nail very quickly slips through and the person would fall forward and then on the ground. So that part of the "testimony" has been proven to be a complete lie. And don't tell me that that wasn't the intent because all old crucifix show Jesus with nails in his hands and nothing else to keep him there.

Here's an example:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71n%2BizZH40L._SL1500_.jpg


See? Nails in hands... not possible!




oopsie - no connections in the hand.

https://goo.gl/images/6lPDme

Bow and science score again.


  

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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #176 - Nov 2nd, 2017 at 4:46pm
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BowHunter wrote on Nov 2nd, 2017 at 1:17am:
In the entire scripture, there isn't a single indication as to the shape of the cross, not one! So the shape that's given to the cross is the result of a guess and a bad one at that since it's a very unlikely one. Besides, you forget, or didn't know, that orgasm is associated with death in many a culture, in fact in French it is even called "petite mort" meaning little death. So death is not disassociated with sex as you seem to imply. Reality is often more complicated than you think, based on the Manichean way you go about pretty much anything including things that are nothing but nuance. Stop being so damn simplistic.

I believe that according to history they nailed them just below the wrist.  I t was an excruciatingly painful death,  When they would go slack and slide down their lungs could not fully take in air and over time out of exhaustion they would suffocate.  If it went on too long they would break their legs to prevent them from seeking relief, which they would do by pushing their body upward. Some of these crucifixion would go on for days.
« Last Edit: Nov 2nd, 2017 at 4:51pm by Seawolf »  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #177 - Nov 2nd, 2017 at 4:59pm
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Seawolf wrote on Nov 2nd, 2017 at 4:46pm:
I believe that according to history they nailed them just below the wrist.


That's never been said before science had determined that it was impossible to do it in the way that was showed in absolutely every crucifix made from the very beginning until then.

At any rate it has nothing to do with history, not even Christian history.

Regardless, if they did that it's very likely that he would have bled to death much quicker than if killed by a regular crucifixion, at any rate the nail would have caused septicemia and shortened his ordeal. I don't see why the roman who had executed tens of thousands of people that way would have experimented a new way on Jesus that would have been likely to kill him faster.

The slowest and most excruciating way to kill someone by crucifixion is to just tie his arms to the cross. Anything else done to the condemned will likely weaken him and therefore shorten his agony.

We can see your dishonesty here when you claim that something is part of history when nothing could be further from the truth, otherwise one would think that the crucifixes would reflect that "history" . Do you believe that your lies for the cause will be rewarded after your death?   
  

Non sequitur:

The Wet Dreams of Mr Cousteau wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
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Seawolf
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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #178 - Nov 2nd, 2017 at 6:09pm
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BowHunter wrote on Nov 2nd, 2017 at 4:59pm:
That's never been said before science had determined that it was impossible to do it in the way that was showed in absolutely every crucifix made from the very beginning until then.

At any rate it has nothing to do with history, not even Christian history.

Regardless, if they did that it's very likely that he would have bled to death much quicker than if killed by a regular crucifixion, at any rate the nail would have caused septicemia and shortened his ordeal. I don't see why the roman who had executed tens of thousands of people that way would have experimented a new way on Jesus that would have been likely to kill him faster.

The slowest and most excruciating way to kill someone by crucifixion is to just tie his arms to the cross. Anything else done to the condemned will likely weaken him and therefore shorten his agony.

We can see your dishonesty here when you claim that something is part of history when nothing could be further from the truth, otherwise one would think that the crucifixes would reflect that "history" . Do you believe that your lies for the cause will be rewarded after your death?   

You are a pretty nasty old man Bow, I mean hating life kind of nasty.  You rarely are capable of simply talking without throwing some kind of tantrum, or simply pissing on someone.  You are not much of a poster child for atheist.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #179 - Nov 2nd, 2017 at 6:28pm
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Seawolf wrote on Nov 2nd, 2017 at 6:09pm:
You are a pretty nasty old man Bow, I mean hating life kind of nasty.  You rarely are capable of simply talking without throwing some kind of tantrum, or simply pissing on someone.  You are not much of a poster child for atheist.


You are by far the nastiest and most vicious of us both, and in this case you simply have no good answers to give as I have described you with accuracy. You perpetuate lies hoping that it will earn you favors in a hypothetical afterlife which is incredibly stupid.

You know very well that people have invented that lie about the wrists because they couldn't reconcile their religion with reality.

Anyone can google up thousands of pictures of crucifixes, not one of them with nails positioned elsewhere than in the palms of the hands.

Regardless of that, you'll lie through your teeth to "defend your faith".

You're about as reliable as a thief giving testimony about his own larcenies and you are meaner than a junkyard dog.
  

Non sequitur:

The Wet Dreams of Mr Cousteau wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
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