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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Do You Believe In God Or Creator? (Read 7,045 times)
Fiddler
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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #200 - Feb 13th, 2018 at 1:24pm
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No
  

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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #201 - Feb 14th, 2018 at 6:34am
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BowHunter wrote on Nov 9th, 2017 at 2:52pm:
Your ad hominem only proves one thing and it's that you are aware of the lameness of your arguments.

If you were so sure of yourself you'd have stopped at the first paragraph. Everything that follows is nothing but personal attack.

Anyway, this, of course, doesn't work as people would have found a way to be more precise in their description or they would have transmitted the information otherwise. Since they were lying about the method then they could not know that it didn't work.

How do we spot false/unreliable witnesses? By the inconsistencies and lack of pertinent details of their reports. People didn't think to give a more accurate description of the "nailing" because they thought from the very beginning that nailing through the palms of the hands would work and had no means to know that it didn't.

That's the only reasonable explanation for why THOUSANDS of crucifix makers throughout the ages got it ALL wrong. Not one who knew that the method didn't work.

Of course, we can always count on fanatics to deny the obvious and replace it by the ridiculously improbable, the same fanatics that will then spend twice as much time attacking the messenger that they did attacking the message.

He did not attack you, just stated a very  obvious behavior.  I do not care about atheism, I think that people who think they are atheist do not actually believe it but to be honest, I do not harass them, call them names, personally attack their belief...  That is what you do on a constant basis which leads EF to think there is an underlying issue to your obsession about our faith.  EF and others from both sides have no interest in pursuing a discussion with people in a subject we do not have any belief in.  Funny when I hear you and others demand that this is not shoved down your throat and yet you spend an enormous amount of time trying to denigrate, verbally abuse and vulgarly insult us.  In other words, you are trying to shove your views down our throats, precisely what you claim to be against. 
« Last Edit: Feb 14th, 2018 at 6:56am by Seawolf »  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #202 - Feb 14th, 2018 at 6:36am
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History has pretty much concludes that a man named Jesus was crucified, I rarely see historians saying otherwise.  The argument they debate is his resurrection and whether or not he was the promised Messiah.  The evidence is sufficient to prove he existed and died at the hands of the his people. 
« Last Edit: Feb 14th, 2018 at 6:55am by Seawolf »  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #203 - Feb 14th, 2018 at 11:35am
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Seawolf wrote on Feb 14th, 2018 at 6:36am:
History has pretty much concludes that a man named Jesus was crucified, I rarely see historians saying otherwise.  The argument they debate is his resurrection and whether or not he was the promised Messiah.  The evidence is sufficient to prove he existed and died at the hands of the his people. 


A recent National Geographic had as its main article "the historical Jesus."

Here's a link to the article:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2017/12/jesus-tomb-archaeology/

And a copy and paste of a relevant paragraph:

"I don’t know any mainstream scholar who doubts the historicity of Jesus,” said Eric Meyers, an archaeologist and emeritus professor in Judaic studies at Duke University. “The details have been debated for centuries, but no one who is serious doubts that he’s a historical figure.”

Certainly not all who believe he's a historical figure believe that he is the Son of God.  (And many of those who claim to believe he is the Son of God give scant evidence of it in their speech and action.) Among those who believed the former and not the latter are some pretty heavy hitters, too, among which are Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin.  And some ordinary folks, including most (if not all) Jews and Muslims. But that he lived and died, crucified on a cross, is pretty much settled history.

  

non sumus stulti
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Fiddler
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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #204 - Feb 14th, 2018 at 1:26pm
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And thus we see difference between evidence (such that it is)
Seawolf wrote on Feb 14th, 2018 at 6:36am:
History has pretty much concludes that a man named Jesus was crucified, 



and Faith ..
Seawolf wrote on Feb 14th, 2018 at 6:36am:
his resurrection and whether or not he was the promised Messiah.   




then ..if there was evidence there'd be no reason for Faith ..
  

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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #205 - Feb 14th, 2018 at 4:20pm
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Fiddler wrote on Feb 14th, 2018 at 1:26pm:
And thus we see difference between evidence (such that it is)


and Faith ..



then ..if there was evidence there'd be no reason for Faith ..
  What is wrong with faith, Atheist have a ton of faith. 
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #206 - Feb 14th, 2018 at 4:33pm
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Seawolf wrote on Feb 14th, 2018 at 4:20pm:
  What is wrong with faith, Atheist have a ton of faith. 



There is 'faith' in certain regular occurrences .. faith that the Sun will rise.. faith that my car will crank..  But the rational person knows that one day the car won't crank and that the Sun isn't forever..

Then there's religious "Faith" ..  i.e. belief in something for which there is no evidence..

In fact.. evidence destroys religious "Faith"  ..

  

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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #207 - Feb 14th, 2018 at 5:44pm
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Fiddler wrote on Feb 14th, 2018 at 4:33pm:
There is 'faith' in certain regular occurrences .. faith that the Sun will rise.. faith that my car will crank..  But the rational person knows that one day the car won't crank and that the Sun isn't forever..

Then there's religious "Faith" ..  i.e. belief in something for which there is no evidence..

In fact.. evidence destroys religious "Faith"  ..


But you hate this, I love it, as an atheist you HAVE to have faith that life accidentally creates life out of nothing.  There simply is no ability to actually witness life out of nothing so by faith you must believe.  Come on man, I can see evidence of intelligent design all around us. I can not see an actual life form that accidentally appears out of nothing.  Can not be recreated, so you have to assume...
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #208 - Feb 14th, 2018 at 5:51pm
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Fiddler wrote on Feb 14th, 2018 at 4:33pm:
There is 'faith' in certain regular occurrences .. faith that the Sun will rise.. faith that my car will crank..  But the rational person knows that one day the car won't crank and that the Sun isn't forever..

Then there's religious "Faith" ..  i.e. belief in something for which there is no evidence..

In fact.. evidence destroys religious "Faith"  ..



I see ample of evidence that supports my faith.  You and I have gone round and round on this so I am not going to spend anymore time on this topic.  You believe your are right and I know I am right.  The end has the answers.

  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Do You Believe In God Or Creator?
Reply #209 - Feb 15th, 2018 at 11:18am
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Seawolf wrote on Feb 14th, 2018 at 5:44pm:
But you hate this, I love it, as an atheist you HAVE to have faith that life accidentally creates life out of nothing. 


You're still confused..  the 'faith' I have in life spontaneously arising is the same as the 'faith" I have in the chemical reaction that produces a flame when I strike a match on the side of the box .

It is not at all like the lack of evidence you require for religious "Faith" ..


Seawolf wrote on Feb 14th, 2018 at 5:44pm:
There simply is no ability to actually witness life out of nothing so by faith you must believe. 


Again you're completely wrong.. We are moving closer each year to producing life in the laboratory. 

U.S. scientists take step toward creating artificial life.


It's simply a matter of time before the "formula" for life is known..


Seawolf wrote on Feb 14th, 2018 at 5:44pm:
Come on man, I can see evidence of intelligent design all around us. I can not see an actual life form that accidentally appears out of nothing.  Can not be recreated, so you have to assume...


No.. What you see around you is the result of accidents (mutations) over millions and millions of years.. 

Life appears designed because it so intimately meshes with the environment that favored some accidents (mutations) and was hostile to others..   Evolution is an elegant, infallible step by step process where natural selection mates an organism with it's surroundings.   

You may not understand the covalent bond holding hydrogen to oxygen to produce water but because you don't understand it does not mean that an intelligence designed the mechanism.  In other words.. for things to be simply complex beyond your comprehension is not evidence of design. It is evidence of your limited understanding.
« Last Edit: Feb 15th, 2018 at 11:24am by Fiddler »  

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