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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Ayn Rand (Read 986 times)
BowHunter
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Re: Ayn Rand
Reply #40 - Aug 27th, 2017 at 1:34pm
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MikeGlosterIII wrote on Aug 27th, 2017 at 11:10am:
So, ;et me understand : iiif I live in a good society and utilize the opportunities which it offers to my advantage, this gives all and any of those either or unwilling or unable to utilize said
opportunities the right to demand my money or services.     Cool


That's self-centered egocentric bullshit. Someday you could find yourself in a bind and in urgent need of help. Your money could be depleted for different reasons including a disease that would cost a fortune to treat and prevent you from working; or you could be embezzled by some crook; or make bad investments or myriads of other things. That day you'll see the benefit of living in a society that doesn't just let you starve on the street as it used to be the case, no so long ago.

"Le miserables" by Victor Hugo tells the story of a man that spent nineteen years in forced labor camp because hunger made him steal ONE loaf of bread.

In a society of people all thinking like you, that man could be you.
  

Non sequitur:

Rodney Your Teas Ready wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
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Re: Ayn Rand
Reply #41 - Aug 27th, 2017 at 3:28pm
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MikeGlosterIII wrote on Aug 27th, 2017 at 11:10am:
So, ;et me understand : iiif I live in a good society and utilize the opportunities which it offers to my advantage, this gives all and any of those either or unwilling or unable to utilize said
opportunities the right to demand my money or services.     Cool


"utilising the opportunities..." basically means "receiving the good of society".

Baulking at giving in your turn seems kind of... shitty.
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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Re: Ayn Rand
Reply #42 - Aug 29th, 2017 at 5:31pm
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Muckster wrote on Aug 25th, 2017 at 1:26pm:
And you're completely wrong. It's called rational self interest.

She wrote an entire essay entitled "The Virtue of Selfishness" (that was a terrible essay btw). That's what she prided and what her philosophy boils down to. You can all it "rational self interest" if you wish.

Quote:
You and others take the easy route and focus on the selfishness part, leaving out the rational part. The rational part makes all the difference.

Hence the problem. People aren't "rational." I think Alexander Hamilton said it well, "Men are rather reasoning than reasonable animals, for the most part governed by the impulse of passion." In other words, we rationalize our behaviour and our desires.

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I've always thought of her philosophy akin to the golden rule.

Have you read her work? She specifically rejects the Golden Rule, unless you're referring to "He who has the gold makes the rules."
« Last Edit: Aug 30th, 2017 at 11:54am by Demos »  
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Re: Ayn Rand
Reply #43 - Aug 29th, 2017 at 9:28pm
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MikeGlosterIII wrote on Aug 27th, 2017 at 11:10am:
So, ;et me understand : iiif I live in a good society and utilize the opportunities which it offers to my advantage, this gives all and any of those either or unwilling or unable to utilize said
opportunities the right to demand my money or services.     Cool


Welcome to anarchism, comrade.  We'll start by abolishing the army.
  

"If cousins, I would much prefer to marry one my Neanderthal relatives than a screeching chimpanzee which might bite my face off as has happened recently. Of course, chimps are not even a human species so procreation between humans and chimps is out of the question." - joe_christian, on sex
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Re: Ayn Rand
Reply #44 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 1:29pm
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Demos wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 5:31pm:
She wrote an entire essay entitled "The Virtue of Selfishness" (that was a terrible essay btw). That's what she prided and what her philosophy boils down to. You can all it "rational self interest" if you wish.

Hence the problem. People aren't "rational." I think Alexander Hamilton said it well, "Men are rather reasoning than reasonable animals, for the most part governed by the impulse of passion." In other words, we rationalize our behaviour and our desires.

Have you read her work? She specifically rejects the Golden Rule, unless you're referring to "He who has the gold makes the rules."
I do think she hurt herself with that title. Should have included the word Rational. And you missed the point anyway. It's not that people are rational, it's that what she's describing is called "rational" self interest. Anyway, you obviously don't get it. No biggie.
  
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Re: Ayn Rand
Reply #45 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 2:13pm
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BowHunter wrote on Aug 17th, 2017 at 1:44am:
He just wanted in his unsubtle way to insinuate that Marx was the exact equivalent to Hitler.


But cannot we say that the evil done in Marx's name makes him as bad as Hitler?

He me have not done physical evil, but his ideas eventually led to massive physical, as well as psychological suffering for hundreds of millions.

Ideas have consequences.

  


To say homo sapiens, is to say Homo religiosus; there is no man without God. ~Frithjof Schuon
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Re: Ayn Rand
Reply #46 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 2:41pm
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Frank1 wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 2:13pm:
But cannot we say that the evil done in Marx's name makes him as bad as Hitler?

He me have not done physical evil, but his ideas eventually led to massive physical, as well as psychological suffering for hundreds of millions.

Ideas have consequences.




Really?

Could be you should rethink blaming people for evil done in their name.
  

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Re: Ayn Rand
Reply #47 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 3:14pm
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billy.pilgrim wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 2:41pm:
Really?

Could be you should rethink blaming people for evil done in their name.


Ideas are real and they have real consequences.

People did things in Marx's name because of his ideas.

If Marx had just been a Joe-Schmo like you or me, well, no one would have created governments in his name, as no one will create governments in our names.

Ideas have consequences.
  


To say homo sapiens, is to say Homo religiosus; there is no man without God. ~Frithjof Schuon
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Re: Ayn Rand
Reply #48 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 4:02pm
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Frank1 wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 2:13pm:
But cannot we say that the evil done in Marx's name makes him as bad as Hitler?


He me have not done physical evil, but his ideas eventually led to massive physical, as well as psychological suffering for hundreds of millions.

Ideas have consequences.




The same thing can be said about Jesus, millions of people have been massacred in his name. Would you agree then that that's makes him as bad as Hitler, according to your OWN assessment?   

Add to that that Islam is but a continuation of Christianity and you can add the millions killed in the name of Islam to Jesus' credit.

edited, you have been warned about this behavior if not more but Christianity is to Islam what Judaism is to Christianity, a precursor.


Ideas do have consequences.
« Last Edit: Aug 30th, 2017 at 4:44pm by Seawolf »  

Non sequitur:

Rodney Your Teas Ready wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
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Re: Ayn Rand
Reply #49 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 5:06pm
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Muckster wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 1:29pm:
I do think she hurt herself with that title. Should have included the word Rational. And you missed the point anyway. It's not that people are rational, it's that what she's describing is called "rational" self interest. Anyway, you obviously don't get it. No biggie.

Wow, just amazing commentary there. Really show your breadth of knowledge on the subject.
  
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