Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › Evict the "dreamers"
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 8 Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Evict the "dreamers" (Read 1,306 times)
Luther
LNF Party Leader
***
Online

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 4,435
Joined: Dec 20th, 2016
Gender: Male
Re: Evict the "dreamers"
Reply #30 - Sep 3rd, 2017 at 4:25pm
Print Post  
The Original Wally wrote on Sep 3rd, 2017 at 4:17pm:
Rather than a Conservative you have continually shown that your blind hatred of Donald Trump makes you little more than a zealot with a loud mouth who's not afraid to use it!  Grin Grin



Quote:
Rather than a Conservative you have continually shown that your blind hatred of Donald Trump


Blind hatred? Trump is a fraud

It's you sir that have the blinders on. 

You cover for Trump guy  like not ending DACA right away .  Shocked Angry
  

All throughout our American history, world history, "ordinary people can do extraordinary things"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Lomelis
LNF Speaker
*****
Offline

Wonderboy

Posts: 12,783
Location: California
Joined: Dec 20th, 2002
Gender: Male
Re: Evict the "dreamers"
Reply #31 - Sep 3rd, 2017 at 6:07pm
Print Post  
Luther wrote on Sep 3rd, 2017 at 4:23pm:
You missed the point  Roll Eyes

Went right over your head Wink


No fool.  Your point was silly and laughed at.  It is impossible to determine an exact amount of -necessary- immigration, or to even determine a -necessary- amount of population growth.

Impossible.
  

Deny, Ignore, Evade, Distract, Place Blame Elsewhere!  Must defend the Trump Messiah!

But, but, but....but Hillary, but Lynch, but Obama, but Boosh, but Clinton!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
crepe05
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 23,357
Location: Louisiana
Joined: Feb 25th, 2012
Gender: Female
Re: Evict the "dreamers"
Reply #32 - Sep 3rd, 2017 at 6:30pm
Print Post  
Lomelis wrote on Sep 3rd, 2017 at 2:53pm:
It's not an assumption.  One of the key arguments against immigration (legal or illegal) has been that it causes increased job competition which can undermine wages and increase unemployment. 


I must disagree with "one of the key arguments against immigration.  Legal immigration is set up to enhance our good job competition, which certainly shouldn't be a problem in a capitalistic society.  Illegal immigration enhances the competition for the lower paying, more 'menial' jobs, and that is not particularly good for our current citizens and legal immigrants who need to begin with some of those jobs.  Immigration laws are not racist or prejudicial.  They are helping to maintain our capitalistic society and keep it from becoming a socialist society.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TowardLiberty
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

anti-state, anti-war and
pro-market

Posts: 30,448
Location: Houston
Joined: Apr 6th, 2008
Gender: Male
Re: Evict the "dreamers"
Reply #33 - Sep 3rd, 2017 at 6:50pm
Print Post  
I'm not sure I buy the notion that we must centrally plan the movement of people in order to avoid socialism.

Do we really have so little faith in the invisible hand that we turn to government policies to save it?

I thought markets were resilient and adaptive systems that suffered -rather than benefited- from conscious management.
  

"Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist." J M Keynes

"In the first place, the dichotomy between "theoretical" and "practical" is a false one. In economics, all arguments are theoretical. And, since economics discusses the real world, these theoretical arguments are by their nature "practical" ones as well." M Rothbard
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
patrick2
LNF Speaker
*****
Online

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 13,554
Joined: Mar 2nd, 2012
Gender: Male
Re: Evict the "dreamers"
Reply #34 - Sep 3rd, 2017 at 7:35pm
Print Post  
Lomelis wrote on Sep 3rd, 2017 at 2:49pm:
The fact is that we have 7.1 million not tens of millions.  First thing first.  Get the facts right.

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf


Ah yes - the fake U3 labor stat, so beloved of the lib media during the Hussein era, surfaces once again.   Grin


Quote:
I can easily ask why so few?  You seem to be suggesting much more than simply limiting immigration, but limiting population growth in general.

Should we also move to a 1 child per family policy like in China?


More people, who are in no sense needed, produce more crowding, more pollution, bigger government, bigger drain on resources, etc etc.  Except for it being the key strategy for them gaining and keeping political power, LIBERALS would be against immigration.

Quote:
We don't -need- more people anymore than we -need- to limit immigration.  I know that this is about control for you, like a true statist you want to control population and everything else for the good of everyone rather than allowing individuals to make their own decisions.


As usual, you have it totally 112% ass-backwards.  Promoting immigration of all kinds is all about liberals gaining control, and endlessly furthering the growth of the statism that they fondly dream of.  Besides getting the votes of people from largely statist countries who believe the government should do everything, it promotes their long-hoped-for ending of the predominance of white people, and the social balkanization that facilitates government control.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
patrick2
LNF Speaker
*****
Online

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 13,554
Joined: Mar 2nd, 2012
Gender: Male
Re: Evict the "dreamers"
Reply #35 - Sep 3rd, 2017 at 7:37pm
Print Post  
TowardLiberty wrote on Sep 3rd, 2017 at 6:50pm:
I'm not sure I buy the notion that we must centrally plan the movement of people in order to avoid socialism.

Do we really have so little faith in the invisible hand that we turn to government policies to save it?

I thought markets were resilient and adaptive systems that suffered -rather than benefited- from conscious management.


As usual with libertarians, you incorrectly reduce everything to economics.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TowardLiberty
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

anti-state, anti-war and
pro-market

Posts: 30,448
Location: Houston
Joined: Apr 6th, 2008
Gender: Male
Re: Evict the "dreamers"
Reply #36 - Sep 3rd, 2017 at 7:51pm
Print Post  
I find it ionic that Patrick says the pro-immigration stance is all about getting more votes for big government programs.

Why do I find it ironic? The irony is in the fact that his pet cause - the limitation on immigration- is itself a big government program. It involves a great deal of oversight into the private dealings of us all to ensure we are not hiring "illegals." And it requires a larger police presence, not to mention a massive public works expenditure.

It checks all the boxes for big government.

But there is one more level of irony to mention.

We know from theory and history (empirical data) that nations with open immigration policies face a trade off- they cannot have both robust immigration and a generous welfare state. Why? Because people don't want their money going to people they do not relate to.

We are seeing this very dynamic play out here in the US, as taxpayers wring their hands at the thought of some immigrant getting a benefit they did not pay for.

This is known as the progressive's dilemma because these are the folks who tend to want to be open to immigrants and provide a public safety net- something that might not be compatible in the long run.

If this is indeed true, then we have little to worry about immigration leading to some sort of permanent left wing revolution.

If anything it will undermine the solidarity (not to mention the math) that makes those programs possible in the first place.
« Last Edit: Sep 3rd, 2017 at 8:24pm by TowardLiberty »  

"Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist." J M Keynes

"In the first place, the dichotomy between "theoretical" and "practical" is a false one. In economics, all arguments are theoretical. And, since economics discusses the real world, these theoretical arguments are by their nature "practical" ones as well." M Rothbard
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TowardLiberty
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

anti-state, anti-war and
pro-market

Posts: 30,448
Location: Houston
Joined: Apr 6th, 2008
Gender: Male
Re: Evict the "dreamers"
Reply #37 - Sep 3rd, 2017 at 7:52pm
Print Post  
patrick2 wrote on Sep 3rd, 2017 at 7:37pm:
As usual with libertarians, you incorrectly reduce everything to economics.

I'm responding to a post specifically dealing with economics.

Do you have something to add or are you just trolling?
  

"Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist." J M Keynes

"In the first place, the dichotomy between "theoretical" and "practical" is a false one. In economics, all arguments are theoretical. And, since economics discusses the real world, these theoretical arguments are by their nature "practical" ones as well." M Rothbard
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Lomelis
LNF Speaker
*****
Offline

Wonderboy

Posts: 12,783
Location: California
Joined: Dec 20th, 2002
Gender: Male
Re: Evict the "dreamers"
Reply #38 - Sep 3rd, 2017 at 10:13pm
Print Post  
crepe05 wrote on Sep 3rd, 2017 at 6:30pm:
I must disagree with "one of the key arguments against immigration.  Legal immigration is set up to enhance our good job competition, which certainly shouldn't be a problem in a capitalistic society.  Illegal immigration enhances the competition for the lower paying, more 'menial' jobs, and that is not particularly good for our current citizens and legal immigrants who need to begin with some of those jobs.  Immigration laws are not racist or prejudicial.  They are helping to maintain our capitalistic society and keep it from becoming a socialist society.


You can disagree with it all you want but that is still one of the cornerstones of the anti-immigrant argument and why I made my initial comment that you responded to.
  

Deny, Ignore, Evade, Distract, Place Blame Elsewhere!  Must defend the Trump Messiah!

But, but, but....but Hillary, but Lynch, but Obama, but Boosh, but Clinton!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Lomelis
LNF Speaker
*****
Offline

Wonderboy

Posts: 12,783
Location: California
Joined: Dec 20th, 2002
Gender: Male
Re: Evict the "dreamers"
Reply #39 - Sep 3rd, 2017 at 10:19pm
Print Post  
patrick2 wrote on Sep 3rd, 2017 at 7:35pm:
Ah yes - the fake U3 labor stat, so beloved of the lib media during the Hussein era, surfaces once again.   Grin


Trump is in charge of this department.  Are you saying he is lying about the unemployment numbers?

If that is the case provide some real stats instead of just making shit up out of thin air.


Quote:
More people, who are in no sense needed, produce more crowding, more pollution, bigger government, bigger drain on resources, etc etc.  Except for it being the key strategy for them gaining and keeping political power, LIBERALS would be against immigration.


So like I said this is more about population control.  Do you also support a similar program to China's one child policy? 

Quote:
As usual, you have it totally 112% ass-backwards.  Promoting immigration of all kinds is all about liberals gaining control, and endlessly furthering the growth of the statism that they fondly dream of.
 

Maybe that's the case for leftists, you are also making a statist argument.  It can't be denied that you want to control who comes into this country because you want to control the growth of rival political groups.

That is your whole argument.  It's entirely about control. 

Quote:
Besides getting the votes of people from largely statist countries who believe the government should do everything, it promotes their long-hoped-for ending of the predominance of white people, and the social balkanization that facilitates government control.


Which is you want to control population growth and the movement of people.

That is control.  You are also making a statist argument.
  

Deny, Ignore, Evade, Distract, Place Blame Elsewhere!  Must defend the Trump Messiah!

But, but, but....but Hillary, but Lynch, but Obama, but Boosh, but Clinton!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 8
Send TopicPrint
 
Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › Evict the "dreamers"

LNF Home - Political Opinion Page
LNF Forums

Christian Forum - Religion Forum - Sports Forum - Entertainment - House
Military, History - Cooking and Crafts - Creative Writing
Off the Wall News - Science Forum - Tech Gadgets - Financial News - Humor
Bunker - Page 2 - Page 3 - Page 4 - Chat Room





Drudge Report - News Max - Rush Limbaugh - FrontpageMag
Advertise on the LNF - Twitter LNF - LNF Archive - LNF News
LNF Blog
News and Political Links
Political Blogs
Add your website or blog
Political Columnists
Political Humor
News forum posting, privacy policy and member rules