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Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › Is there any practical benefit to building a wall on our southern border?
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Is there any practical benefit to building a wall on our southern border? (Read 3,454 times)
Limey
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Re: Is there any practical benefit to building a wall on our southern border?
Reply #110 - Sep 10th, 2017 at 9:30pm
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patrick2 wrote on Sep 10th, 2017 at 8:40pm:
Illegals flood the emergency rooms in the US for ordinary medical problems.  They get treated for free because that is the ethics of physicians, but the costs are cost-shifted onto americans by hiking their bills and insurance premiums.

They get free education in the government schools because the supreme court has ruled that you have to.  In one period in the los angeles public schools, they had to teach the illiterate Mexicans how to read and write in Spanish before they could teach them English.


About the medical thing, very similar language is used here.


However, it's hard to see how words like "flood" (in UK it is usually "swarm") are justified.


Have you got numbers?
  

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Re: Is there any practical benefit to building a wall on our southern border?
Reply #111 - Sep 10th, 2017 at 10:22pm
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Limey wrote on Sep 10th, 2017 at 9:30pm:
About the medical thing, very similar language is used here.


However, it's hard to see how words like "flood" (in UK it is usually "swarm") are justified.


Have you got numbers?


Just the article by the nutcase.
  

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Re: Is there any practical benefit to building a wall on our southern border?
Reply #112 - Sep 10th, 2017 at 10:53pm
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patrick2 wrote on Sep 10th, 2017 at 8:35pm:
It has to do with the topic of this thread - have you forgotten which thread you're in?   Grin Roll Eyes

Apparently you forgot what we were discussing. Nah, you didn't forget, you just wanted to change the subject because you had nothing, and still don't have anything.
  
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Re: Is there any practical benefit to building a wall on our southern border?
Reply #113 - Sep 10th, 2017 at 10:59pm
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I view "the wall" as a metaphor.
  

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Re: Is there any practical benefit to building a wall on our southern border?
Reply #114 - Sep 10th, 2017 at 11:22pm
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Queshank wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:33am:
Seriously.  I mean it's funny that Trump promised it so comically "Gonna make Mexico pay for it."  "Gonna have a big beautiful door in that big beautiful wall."

But I have yet to hear a Trump supporter actually say why we should build a wall.

Being a 100% open borders guy perhaps has limited my thinking on this issue. 

Can anybody actually lay out a practical benefit to the wall?  One that isn't easily countered by technology as old as civilization like shovels and ladders?

Queshank


You might not agree with the claims. But people have hardly been silent in terms of "why" they believe we need it.
  
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Re: Is there any practical benefit to building a wall on our southern border?
Reply #115 - Sep 11th, 2017 at 12:58am
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capitalist_pig wrote on Sep 10th, 2017 at 10:59pm:
I view "the wall" as a metaphor.


So does trump.
  

Non sequitur:

The Wet Dreams of Mr Cousteau wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
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Re: Is there any practical benefit to building a wall on our southern border?
Reply #116 - Sep 11th, 2017 at 2:54am
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Limey wrote on Sep 10th, 2017 at 9:30pm:
About the medical thing, very similar language is used here.


However, it's hard to see how words like "flood" (in UK it is usually "swarm") are justified.


Have you got numbers?


From The American College of Emergency Physicians site:

How do undocumented immigrants in the U.S. who are uninsured affect emergency care?   

Most undocumented immigrants are unable to obtain health insurance and this means many are unable to pay – contributing to uncompensated care, especially in Border States, such as California, Texas and Arizona. Billions of dollars of uncompensated care has resulted in the closure of hundreds of emergency departments in America, which is reducing capacity and threatening everyone’s access to lifesaving care.



http://newsroom.acep.org/fact_sheets?item=30032
  
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Re: Is there any practical benefit to building a wall on our southern border?
Reply #117 - Sep 11th, 2017 at 2:15pm
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patrick2 wrote on Sep 11th, 2017 at 2:54am:
From The American College of Emergency Physicians site:

How do undocumented immigrants in the U.S. who are uninsured affect emergency care?   

Most undocumented immigrants are unable to obtain health insurance and this means many are unable to pay – contributing to uncompensated care, especially in Border States, such as California, Texas and Arizona. Billions of dollars of uncompensated care has resulted in the closure of hundreds of emergency departments in America, which is reducing capacity and threatening everyone’s access to lifesaving care.



http://newsroom.acep.org/fact_sheets?item=30032

And here's one from further down in that same link:

Q. How much does it cost U.S. taxpayers to provide health care for undocumented immigrants?

Billions of dollars are spent each year caring for undocumented immigrants, although data are scare on both costs and use of health care. Transient living conditions, undercounting of migrant workers and desire to avoid contact with government agencies limit the nation’s ability to accurately determine the costs of their medical care.

Many hospitals are concerned that the U.S. government will cut money — about $20 billion annually — used to pay for emergency care for undocumented immigrants — mostly in poor urban and rural areas. The health care law will eventually cut that money by half because of the anticipation that fewer people will lack insurance after the law is implemented.[xix]

IOW, they know it's billions but data on costs and use of healthcare are "scarce."

Reading through this entire link and reading other info on undocumented aliens seeking healthcare one comes away with the impression that undocumented aliens only seek healthcare when they really believe there is no other option. IOW, it ain't gonna just get better.  Because they do not want to draw attention to themselves.  It is true that hospitals provide a lot of what they call "uncompensated care," but the vast majority of it is to people who are NOT undocumented immigrants. 

I know you're dug in and that's fine.  You gotta have a bogey man for all of society's ills.  Just like Hitler blamed the Jews for Germany's problems, you're blaming illegal aliens for ours.  I get that.  But it just ain't so.
  

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Limey
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Re: Is there any practical benefit to building a wall on our southern border?
Reply #118 - Sep 11th, 2017 at 3:20pm
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Similar here.


Brexit basically came about for a very small number of reasons, and all of them were substantially wrong.
The myth of expensive illegal immigrants was one.


Those who peddle the distortion of facts should take care.

Here in UK it is about to unfold as a self inflicted wound of staggering proportions.


If course, a demonstrably foolish political move based on halfwitted voters fed lies by media outlets with an agenda could not happen to you Americans.


Nope.
  

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Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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Re: Is there any practical benefit to building a wall on our southern border?
Reply #119 - Sep 12th, 2017 at 8:43am
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Limey wrote on Sep 10th, 2017 at 3:28pm:
If that is broadly the case, is there much of an economic argument against illegal immigration, in the terms we often see?

There are very similar conversations here in UK, with anti immigration people genuinely angry about the costs of illegal immigrants. But when you look, those costs aren't really there.

This isn't meant as a hooray for unfettered immigration by the way, more a wistful thought about informed debate and unfair demonisation.


This is a typical development in the United States.  We as a people are regularly divided by issues that really only impact the two political parties.

American citizens are not impacted by illegal immigration.  The incessant foolish debate about economics and "burdens to society" thru welfare and burdens on our public school system and all that horsecrap are just the trappings of the attempt to convince people.  Immigrants of any kind, illegal or otherwise are a benefit to us economically. The welfare issue is an issue only depending on what state we're talking about and what requirements the state attaches to their assistance such as proof of citizenship.  And illegal immigrants do pay property taxes which is what funds our school system.

The real issue is we have an electoral college and a districting system based solely on the constitutional concept of apportionment.  The more population a state has, the more electoral votes they have in our government.  The only criteria examined to determine apportionment is population of the state at the time of our census.  A census which includes illegal immigrants in its counting system. 

Each state gets 1 electoral vote.  The other 385 are "apportioned" related to population levels in states.  Which shuffles them around every 10 years.  The Constitution requires that "total population" regardless of any qualifications determine where these are apportioned.  In 2010 for example, 5 states lost seats.  Missouri, Illinois, and Michigan each lost a seat, and New York and Ohio each lost 2 seats.  Florida gained two seats.  To give you an idea as to why some states throw their doors open wide to illegals and others are all pissed off about it ... in 2000 California alone picked up 9 seats based on the proportion of our population that lived there ... INCLUDING illegals.

It really is a game of tug of war over electoral power.  States with more electoral college votes have more influence in our presidential election.  The rest of the shit is just meat for the masses to use against each other.

Queshank
  

Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told.

Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.
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