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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Can god change his mind? (Read 247 times)
Muckster
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Can god change his mind?
Sep 13th, 2017 at 1:42pm
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Is it possible for god to change his mind? For example, could he decide something in the bible should change, and then contact someone about it to get it changed?
  
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BowHunter
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Re: Can god change his mind?
Reply #1 - Sep 13th, 2017 at 4:19pm
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Muckster wrote on Sep 13th, 2017 at 1:42pm:
Is it possible for god to change his mind? For example, could he decide something in the bible should change, and then contact someone about it to get it changed?


According to the Christians, god has changed his mind several times already. Witness the differences between the old and the new testament. Jesus spared the life of a woman that would have been stoned to death in Moses time without hesitation. However, we're supposed to believe that he changed his mind for the last time with the coming of Jesus.
  

Non sequitur:

The Wet Dreams of Mr Cousteau wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
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EF
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Re: Can god change his mind?
Reply #2 - Sep 13th, 2017 at 6:43pm
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Muckster wrote on Sep 13th, 2017 at 1:42pm:
Is it possible for god to change his mind? For example, could he decide something in the bible should change, and then contact someone about it to get it changed?


This actually touches on some pretty deep theology.  There are many places where the Bible records God "relented" or some such, indicating a change in direction.  And some have thought that meant God "changed his mind."

But think about the reasons you change your mind.  You lost your temper, acted rashly, and cooled off.  Or you got more information.  Or the information you already had was put into proper context, leading you to a different conclusion. 

If there is a God (and I believe there is) and if that God exists outside of the constraints of time (as I believe he does) and if that God created the known universe (including dark matter) from absolutely nothing (and remember, the vacuum of space is "something"), then that's a pretty potent being.  That being is perfect in every respect and is omniscient.  There is nothing He does not know, so he cannot get "new information."  There is nothing that can take Him by surprise.  While capable of anger, his anger is not like ours and it is never impulsive.  He cannot "lose His temper."

So there is no reason for God to change His mind.  To do so would indicate imperfection.  What looks to us like times when He changed His mind are actually just planned actions.  He does what He does because, as He says, "I am that I am."  He owes us no explanation.
  

non sumus stulti
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BowHunter
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Re: Can god change his mind?
Reply #3 - Sep 13th, 2017 at 6:54pm
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EF wrote on Sep 13th, 2017 at 6:43pm:
This actually touches on some pretty deep theology.  There are many places where the Bible records God "relented" or some such, indicating a change in direction.  And some have thought that meant God "changed his mind."

But think about the reasons you change your mind.  You lost your temper, acted rashly, and cooled off.  Or you got more information.  Or the information you already had was put into proper context, leading you to a different conclusion. 

If there is a God (and I believe there is) and if that God exists outside of the constraints of time (as I believe he does) and if that God created the known universe (including dark matter) from absolutely nothing (and remember, the vacuum of space is "something"), then that's a pretty potent being.  That being is perfect in every respect and is omniscient.  There is nothing He does not know, so he cannot get "new information."  There is nothing that can take Him by surprise.  While capable of anger, his anger is not like ours and it is never impulsive.  He cannot "lose His temper."

So there is no reason for God to change His mind.  To do so would indicate imperfection.  What looks to us like times when He changed His mind are actually just planned actions.  He does what He does because, as He says, "I am that I am."  He owes us no explanation.


If god is perfect and incapable of changing his mind then he shouldn't have been able to create anything, because he didn't miss anything and especially not some visibly flawed and imperfect universe like this one. Your god contains a contradiction in terms. congratulations! You've just defined a square circle, IOW an impossibility.

I agree with you. Your god owes us no explanation. Imaginary beings never do.
« Last Edit: Sep 13th, 2017 at 6:59pm by BowHunter »  

Non sequitur:

The Wet Dreams of Mr Cousteau wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
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Muckster
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Re: Can god change his mind?
Reply #4 - Sep 14th, 2017 at 1:19pm
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BowHunter wrote on Sep 13th, 2017 at 6:54pm:
If god is perfect and incapable of changing his mind then he shouldn't have been able to create anything, because he didn't miss anything and especially not some visibly flawed and imperfect universe like this one. Your god contains a contradiction in terms. congratulations! You've just defined a square circle, IOW an impossibility.

I agree with you. Your god owes us no explanation. Imaginary beings never do.
Ah great one. I never thought of that. In order to create something, the creator has to change in some regard, if only to desire something that doesn't currently exist.
  
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Muckster
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Re: Can god change his mind?
Reply #5 - Sep 14th, 2017 at 1:22pm
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EF wrote on Sep 13th, 2017 at 6:43pm:
This actually touches on some pretty deep theology.  There are many places where the Bible records God "relented" or some such, indicating a change in direction.  And some have thought that meant God "changed his mind."

But think about the reasons you change your mind.  You lost your temper, acted rashly, and cooled off.  Or you got more information.  Or the information you already had was put into proper context, leading you to a different conclusion. 

If there is a God (and I believe there is) and if that God exists outside of the constraints of time (as I believe he does) and if that God created the known universe (including dark matter) from absolutely nothing (and remember, the vacuum of space is "something"), then that's a pretty potent being.  That being is perfect in every respect and is omniscient.  There is nothing He does not know, so he cannot get "new information."  There is nothing that can take Him by surprise.  While capable of anger, his anger is not like ours and it is never impulsive.  He cannot "lose His temper."

So there is no reason for God to change His mind.  To do so would indicate imperfection.  What looks to us like times when He changed His mind are actually just planned actions.  He does what He does because, as He says, "I am that I am."  He owes us no explanation.
I never understood how believers go from creator to perfect being. (Well I guess I do understand - they need the psychological crutch. But that's a different thing.)
  
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Re: Can god change his mind?
Reply #6 - Sep 14th, 2017 at 3:52pm
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Muckster wrote on Sep 14th, 2017 at 1:22pm:
I never understood how believers go from creator to perfect being. (Well I guess I do understand - they need the psychological crutch. But that's a different thing.)


The thing is that god is an impossibility. Religious people often object that the chances of man, life or the universe, appearing on its own are very low. However god appearing on its own, given that god is supposed to be even more complex than anything in the universe, is even more improbable. To that they object that god always existed and didn't have to appear. That's an obvious cop out, because it's not simply the appearance of god that's improbable, it's his existence. However if god has always existed then he must be perfect, otherwise there would be a part of god (his imperfection) that would be beyond god's control. And if it's not under gods control then  under whose it is? You see the problem? They've created an imaginary being without answering the question. Plus god being unique (unlike us), can't evolve like we did through natural selection. He would be submitted to the second law of thermodynamic and continually seeing his entropy increase, until he'd be to disorganized to exist.


So they have to posit a perfect god and as we can see, even a perfect god leads to an impossibility. If you're already perfect, why would you need to change anything? Especially something imperfect. Note that creating something imperfect is a mark of imperfection. Because if a perfect being decided to botch his work and create something imperfect that would be a sort of perversion and perversion is unthinkable in a perfect being. No matter how you look at it, you end up with an impossibility.
  

Non sequitur:

The Wet Dreams of Mr Cousteau wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
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Seawolf
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Re: Can god change his mind?
Reply #7 - Sep 15th, 2017 at 7:21am
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This is the Christian forum, not the religious forums, mocking, insults and vulgar language will be edited.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Muckster
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Re: Can god change his mind?
Reply #8 - Sep 15th, 2017 at 2:12pm
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Seawolf wrote on Sep 15th, 2017 at 7:21am:
This is the Christian forum, not the religious forums, mocking, insults and vulgar language will be edited.
What do you find mocking or insulting? Do you hold your beliefs so weakly that you can't stand a little discussion from your own point of view?
  
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Re: Can god change his mind?
Reply #9 - Sep 15th, 2017 at 11:36pm
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Muckster wrote on Sep 15th, 2017 at 2:12pm:
What do you find mocking or insulting? Do you hold your beliefs so weakly that you can't stand a little discussion from your own point of view?

Take note of my remarks.  This forum is for Christians to talk about Christ, if you want to come here and ridicule our faith you are in the wrong forum.  You guys have no restraints in the other forum, this was designed for us to share our beliefs, theology, doctrine, history, The Bible...
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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