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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Sanders Proposes Medicare for All... (Read 769 times)
wyattstorch2004
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Sanders Proposes Medicare for All...
Sep 13th, 2017 at 8:38pm
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This is a pivotal moment in American history. Do we, as a nation, join the rest of the industrialized world and guarantee comprehensive health care to every person as a human right? Or do we maintain a system that is enormously expensive, wasteful and bureaucratic, and is designed to maximize profits for big insurance companies, the pharmaceutical industry, Wall Street and medical equipment suppliers?


This is rather interesting, considering the biggest riches the pharmaceutical industry gets are from Medicare.  Exactly the program he proposes to expand, funded and run by exactly the organization (the federal government) that has created the "system" that exists today.

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All over this country, I have heard from Americans who have shared heartbreaking stories about our dysfunctional system. Doctors have told me about patients who died because they put off their medical visits until it was too late. These were people who had no insurance or could not afford out-of-pocket costs imposed by their insurance plans.


How would Medicare for All change that?

Medicare charges premiums just like regular insurance for part B and D (and part C depending on the plan).  Think doctor visits, outpatient surgery, etc.  So how will Medicare for All suddenly allow people who could not afford premiums to suddenly afford them?  And once you have Medicare part B, you are responsible for 20% of the cost.  So what makes this 20% more affordable than an insurance company's out of pocket cost?  Oh, and by the way, there are no lifetime or yearly out of pocket maximums for Medicare patients like the ones imposed on private insurance policies.

Then there is Part A.  This covers hospitalizations.  Think appendix surgery, ICU stays, etc.  The deductible right now is $1,316.00.  And that recycles every 60 days you are out of the hospital (not every year like private insurance).  And that is per person.  The average household has less than $500.00 in savings.  So how is that affordable?

Quote:
Americans should not hesitate about going to the doctor because they do not have enough money. They should not worry that a hospital stay will bankrupt them or leave them deeply in debt. They should be able to go to the doctor they want, not just one in a particular network.


Americans who have done nothing to diminish their financial risk should worry about going bankrupt.  It is the primary motivator for people to be thrifty and make every effort to protect themselves financially, put off unnecessary spending, etc.

And Medicare, just like private insurance has networks.  Any facility or doctor in the country can choose not to accept Medicare.  Just like with insurance.  And Medicare, unlike insurance, has no ability to negotiate.  Their rates are set legislatively.

Quote:
In 2015, the United States spent almost $10,000 per person for health care; the Canadians, Germans, French and British spent less than half of that, while guaranteeing health care to everyone. Further, these countries have higher life expectancy rates and lower infant mortality rates than we do.


The logical flaw here should be obvious.

Quote:
The reason that our health care system is so outrageously expensive is that it is not designed to provide quality care to all in a cost-effective way, but to provide huge profits to the medical-industrial complex.


Except that profit motive drives organizations to be more efficient.  More efficiency means more profit.  Except when government forces people to buy a product, I guess.

Quote:
As the only major country not to negotiate drug prices with the pharmaceutical industry, we spend tens of billions more than we should.


When he says that "as the only major country not to negotiate drug prices", he is referring specifically to Medicare.  Medicare doesn't negotiate drug prices.  The rest of the country does.  Medicare -- the program he wants everyone in -- doesn't.

Quote:
Under this legislation, every family in America would receive comprehensive coverage, and middle-class families would save thousands of dollars a year by eliminating their private insurance costs as we move to a publicly funded program.


Important details left out: "publicly funded" means taxes.  These folks would see tax increases.  They would also still have all sorts of costs associated with having Medicare.

Quote:
According to an April poll by The Economist/YouGov, 60 percent of the American people want to “expand Medicare to provide health insurance to every American,” including 75 percent of Democrats, 58 percent of independents and 46 percent of Republicans.


I wonder how it would poll if they added "...and raise everyone's taxes to pay for it".

Link: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/13/opinion/bernie-sanders-medicare-single-payer....

Then there is this whole notion that healthcare is a right.  Which itself is rather problematic.

Of course this idea will not pass any time soon, and it shouldn't, because (among other reasons) it is clearly not very well thought out.
  
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Limey
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Re: Sanders Proposes Medicare for All...
Reply #1 - Sep 13th, 2017 at 8:54pm
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Do you think that your nation could arrange,  if they absolutely had to, a universal healthcare system funded by every tax payer throwing in, say, 4% or 5% of salary but having zero other health cost unless they chose a private provider on top?

If employers paid 1% or so of payroll as a healthcare tax? If pension funds did, too?

Would that system be adequately funded?

Could it provide good care?
  

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wyattstorch2004
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Re: Sanders Proposes Medicare for All...
Reply #2 - Sep 13th, 2017 at 9:16pm
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Limey wrote on Sep 13th, 2017 at 8:54pm:
Do you think that your nation could arrange,  if they absolutely had to, a universal healthcare system funded by every tax payer throwing in, say, 4% or 5% of salary but having zero other health cost unless they chose a private provider on top?

If employers paid 1% or so of payroll as a healthcare tax? If pension funds did, too?

Would that system be adequately funded?

Could it provide good care?


Considering the average person's healthcare cost is more than 4 - 5 % of their wage, I don't think so.

Healthcare is 1/6th of the economy here.  How could it possibly be funded with an individual tax of 4 -5%?

Medicare, as it currently exists, costs every working person 1.45% of their earned income with their employer matching that.  so 2.9% total.  Unless you make over $250K, then you get to pay another .9%.  And that doesn't fully fund Medicare as it stands -- without dental or vision coverage, and with those who qualify kicking in lots of money out of pocket if they want anything beyond hospitalization coverage.  And that is just to cover folks over 65 (many don't even live long enough to use it) and some folks with disabilities.

So no, I don't think bumping that 2.9% (or 3.8%) up to 4 - 5% will have any chance of properly funding a healthcare program for everyone.
  
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Re: Sanders Proposes Medicare for All...
Reply #3 - Sep 13th, 2017 at 9:17pm
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Limey wrote on Sep 13th, 2017 at 8:54pm:
Do you think that your nation could arrange,  if they absolutely had to, a universal healthcare system funded by every tax payer throwing in, say, 4% or 5% of salary but having zero other health cost unless they chose a private provider on top?

If employers paid 1% or so of payroll as a healthcare tax? If pension funds did, too?

Would that system be adequately funded?

Could it provide good care?


currently employees pay 6.2%, of gross earnings up to $127,000, for Social Security & 1.45%, of all gross earnings, for Medicare both of which the employers have to match.

https://smartasset.com/taxes/all-about-the-fica-tax
  
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Re: Sanders Proposes Medicare for All...
Reply #4 - Sep 13th, 2017 at 9:34pm
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Is there anything  more important than healthcare?  Both on a personal and societal level, perhaps only the common defense ranks up there with healthcare.

IF it is important to have a healthy populace, one that is financially solvent, then we have no choice but to follow old Bern Kenobi's sage council.

  

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Re: Sanders Proposes Medicare for All...
Reply #5 - Sep 13th, 2017 at 9:35pm
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As we all know, there are people in this country who are able to work, but do not. There are people in our country who happily feed off our government and are content to have every need paid for with our tax dollars.

Can anyone give me one reason why our tax dollars should go toward funding these people's health care? Give it your best shot.
  


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JohnnyBgood
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Re: Sanders Proposes Medicare for All...
Reply #6 - Sep 13th, 2017 at 9:37pm
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Jasmine wrote on Sep 13th, 2017 at 9:35pm:
As we all know, there are people in this country who are able to work, but do not. There are people in our country who happily feed off our government and are content to have every need paid for with our tax dollars.

Can anyone give me one reason why our tax dollars should go toward funding these people's health care? Give it your best shot.

Many don't even care.

As long as children get it I don't care. We're over populated anyway.
  

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wyattstorch2004
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Re: Sanders Proposes Medicare for All...
Reply #7 - Sep 13th, 2017 at 9:41pm
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Capt. Lola B.S.C. wrote on Sep 13th, 2017 at 9:34pm:
Is there anything  more important than healthcare?  Both on a personal and societal level, perhaps only the common defense ranks up there with healthcare.

IF it is important to have a healthy populace, one that is financially solvent, then we have no choice but to follow old Bern Kenobi's sage council.

https://i.imgflip.com/11bbej.jpg


Except for the healthy and financially solvent part...

There are plenty of better choices than the one Sanders is proposing.
  
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Jasmine
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Re: Sanders Proposes Medicare for All...
Reply #8 - Sep 13th, 2017 at 9:41pm
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JohnnyBgood wrote on Sep 13th, 2017 at 9:37pm:
Many don't even care.

As long as children get it I don't care. We're over populated anyway.

I would not even give it to their children. That should be the parents' responsibility.
  


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JohnnyBgood
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Re: Sanders Proposes Medicare for All...
Reply #9 - Sep 13th, 2017 at 10:02pm
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Jasmine wrote on Sep 13th, 2017 at 9:41pm:
I would not even give it to their children. That should be the parents' responsibility.

Parents aren't responsible. The child didn't ask to be born
  

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