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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Sins of Our Fathers (Read 1,889 times)
TowardLiberty
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Re: Sins of Our Fathers
Reply #140 - Oct 9th, 2017 at 11:55am
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BowHunter wrote on Oct 9th, 2017 at 6:00am:
What if that speech includes? "You can beat that man up, I'll pay the legal fees."


Nope, it's close though.

  

"Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist." J M Keynes

"In the first place, the dichotomy between "theoretical" and "practical" is a false one. In economics, all arguments are theoretical. And, since economics discusses the real world, these theoretical arguments are by their nature "practical" ones as well." M Rothbard
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Re: Sins of Our Fathers
Reply #141 - Oct 9th, 2017 at 11:38pm
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TowardLiberty wrote on Oct 9th, 2017 at 11:54am:
No, not generally.

But I don't remember that being the relevant standard to judge racism by.

I'd call a Nazi supporter a racist even if they didn't cause any real damage to someone else.


True enough. But why are we raising the bar so high? By doing so, were letting some racists off the hook.

And then that creates a breeding ground for those ideas to spread.

No doubt and I agree that mere words should not be criminalized. But I am fine with shaming people for what they say.

And if we can't shame them by pointing out their racism just because they lack power, then it seems we are giving up a great tool.


Well I think it's time we become more accurate with our language, more careful.  I truly believe that words are more powerful than any weapon.  Without words and language, we'd not be able to design create build and maintain nuclear weapons for instance.  Of course, it's words that can motivate a nation to war or a man to violence.  Words can do the opposite as well.

A Nazi sympathizer like half the "normal" conservatives on here are not racists, though they may hold some racist ideas.  Look!  There!  See?!  You're NOT racists.

*angelic choir sound*

You're misguided.  You're incorrect.  You're a moron but you are NOT a racist.  To achieve that, you'll have to act on your thoughts in such a way as to prove it.  It's meaningless to me before then, say whatever you want and I'll let it effect me or not, as is the nature of my brain.  I can't choose to be motivated one way or the other, it just happens.
  

"Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Hard Battle" Plato
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USyeah
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Re: Sins of Our Fathers
Reply #142 - Oct 9th, 2017 at 11:59pm
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Lomelis wrote on Oct 8th, 2017 at 11:05pm:
And you are changing the definition of the word to suit your own vision of what you think should be.  If someone harbors racist thoughts, that person is a racist regardless if he has the power to implement racist policiea or not.


what you described is a bigot not a racist 

"Definition of bigot

:a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot
  
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Re: Sins of Our Fathers
Reply #143 - Oct 10th, 2017 at 12:05am
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USyeah wrote on Oct 9th, 2017 at 11:59pm:
what you described is a bigot not a racist 

"Definition of bigot

:a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot


TOUCHDOWN!  That's the kind of accuracy I'm talking about, well played!


  

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TowardLiberty
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Re: Sins of Our Fathers
Reply #144 - Oct 10th, 2017 at 1:33am
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Nazi Hunter B.S.C. wrote on Oct 10th, 2017 at 12:05am:
TOUCHDOWN!  That's the kind of accuracy I'm talking about, well played!



I would argue that racism is a specific form of bigotry.
  

"Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist." J M Keynes

"In the first place, the dichotomy between "theoretical" and "practical" is a false one. In economics, all arguments are theoretical. And, since economics discusses the real world, these theoretical arguments are by their nature "practical" ones as well." M Rothbard
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Nazi Hunter B.S.C.
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Re: Sins of Our Fathers
Reply #145 - Oct 10th, 2017 at 1:48am
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TowardLiberty wrote on Oct 10th, 2017 at 1:33am:
I would argue that racism is a specific form of bigotry.


I'd be obliged to agree with you, but the question is; who is capable of racism?

We can all be bigots, it's so easy even an American can do it.  But not all of us are lucky enough to be in a position of power to earn the title of racist.

*flexes*
  

"Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Hard Battle" Plato
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Re: Sins of Our Fathers
Reply #146 - Oct 10th, 2017 at 2:44am
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Nazi Hunter B.S.C. wrote on Oct 10th, 2017 at 1:48am:
I'd be obliged to agree with you, but the question is; who is capable of racism?

We can all be bigots, it's so easy even an American can do it.  But not all of us are lucky enough to be in a position of power to earn the title of racist.

*flexes*

Well, that's a fair response.

I would distinguish between racist views and racist acts, along with you.

I think where we differ is on the question of what qualifies as a racist act. I presume you would argue a racist act requires some power to institutionalize the prejudice. Where as I think any expression of racism is a racist act.

That said I agree that the power to impose racist ideas is much worse than the mere act of voicing a bigoted view.

I guess I am not willing to let the disenfranchised off the hook as it regards their own bigotry.
  

"Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist." J M Keynes

"In the first place, the dichotomy between "theoretical" and "practical" is a false one. In economics, all arguments are theoretical. And, since economics discusses the real world, these theoretical arguments are by their nature "practical" ones as well." M Rothbard
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Re: Sins of Our Fathers
Reply #147 - Oct 10th, 2017 at 3:34am
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TowardLiberty wrote on Oct 10th, 2017 at 2:44am:
Well, that's a fair response.

I'm would distinguish between racist views and racist acts, along with you.

I think where we differ is on the question of what qualifies as a racist act. I presume you would argue a racist act requires some power to institutionalize the prejudice. Where as I think any expression of racism is a racist act.

That said I agree that the power to impose racist ideas is much worse than the mere act of voicing a bigoted view.

I guess I am not willing to let the disenfranchised off the hook as it regards their own bigotry.


I'm probably arguing a losing battle as I'm sure the term racist is used a bit more broadly as you suggest.  I'd just like to note that it is wrong, it's hurtful. 

Angry white men everywhere have been crying out. A wailing sobbing moan of pain and anguish.  Haven't you been paying attention to the forums?  They've spawned a new political movement for crying out loud!

The playing fields too equal! They scream.

We can't jump!  We can't run!
They plead.

Their ancestors and their ancestors before them have ruled brutally and now that the playing field begins to equalize a bit, they whine and cry foul. Grin 

Can anyone actually blame me for wanting to punch those twerps in the nose? 

  

"Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Hard Battle" Plato
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Lomelis
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Re: Sins of Our Fathers
Reply #148 - Oct 10th, 2017 at 4:25am
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TowardLiberty wrote on Oct 10th, 2017 at 1:33am:
I would argue that racism is a specific form of bigotry.


Bingo.

Some people just aren't getting it.
  

Deny, Ignore, Evade, Distract, Place Blame Elsewhere!  Must defend the Trump Messiah!

But, but, but....but Hillary, but Lynch, but Obama, but Boosh, but Clinton!
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Re: Sins of Our Fathers
Reply #149 - Oct 10th, 2017 at 4:33am
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Nazi Hunter B.S.C. wrote on Oct 10th, 2017 at 1:48am:
I'd be obliged to agree with you, but the question is; who is capable of racism?


I don't think you really get that -who is capable- doesn't crappity smacking really matter.  The definition of racist is pretty straight forward, you even quoted it yourself yet for whatever reason you want to emphasize one aspect of the definition while completely ignoring the other side of the definition which completely undermines your whole racial world view, that yes indeed people who are not white can indeed be racist.  Your whole outlook is racist in itself. 

Its crappity smacking amazing to me that you are just as ignorant as the dumb rednecks you abhor, and yes I know that was a racist comment of me (regardless of my actual race).

Quote:
We can all be bigots, it's so easy even an American can do it.  But not all of us are lucky enough to be in a position of power to earn the title of racist.

*flexes*


You quoted the definition then outright ignored the half that didn't quite fit with your world view.

Denial?  Ignorance?  I don't know.
  

Deny, Ignore, Evade, Distract, Place Blame Elsewhere!  Must defend the Trump Messiah!

But, but, but....but Hillary, but Lynch, but Obama, but Boosh, but Clinton!
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