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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) A Conversation With Wadsworth. Ask me anything Wads. (Read 5,150 times)
Wadsworth
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Re: A Conversation With Wadsworth. Ask me anything Wads.
Reply #240 - Oct 9th, 2017 at 8:18am
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TowardLiberty wrote on Oct 9th, 2017 at 12:10am:
Yes, Locke, the "founder of liberalism."

Where are the 20th century liberals you ask?

Hayek and Mises are great examples. Gordon Tullock, James Buchanan and Leland Yeager are also noteworthy.

Who call themselves "classical Liberals"  Which is more a libertarian view of today than a liberal view.  No liberal in this country today subscribes to their principles.  If I am wrong, then name one, just one.  Is it Hillary Clinton?  Chuck Schumer? How about Barrack Obama.  Name one.  Just one.
  

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TowardLiberty
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Re: A Conversation With Wadsworth. Ask me anything Wads.
Reply #241 - Oct 9th, 2017 at 11:30am
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Wadsworth wrote on Oct 9th, 2017 at 8:01am:
As I said, why are we talking about "classical liberalism"?  It has nothing to do with the liberals of today that voted for Hilary Clinton and Barrack Obama and has more to do with the philosophies of libertarianism.  So you have not proven that today's liberals are totally different than what you call a leftist.  As I said, there are extremes on both sides.  The far left  and the far right.

Why are we talking about classical liberalism? Well, it's being challenged on all sides.

And since it is one of the greatest achievements of mankind and helped us get where we are today, I'd say that's a worthwhile discussion to have.

I certainly have no interest in discussing petty partisan politics, if that's what you are insinuating.

Far better to discuss political philosophy.

What you don't seem to understand is that classical liberalism is alive and well, today, in the here and now. There are many liberals and they are very different from left wingers. They are not Clinton or Obama voters, that is for sure.

We have already discussed the difference between liberalism and left liberalism. I don't think it needs to be done again!
  

"Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist." J M Keynes

"In the first place, the dichotomy between "theoretical" and "practical" is a false one. In economics, all arguments are theoretical. And, since economics discusses the real world, these theoretical arguments are by their nature "practical" ones as well." M Rothbard
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TowardLiberty
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Re: A Conversation With Wadsworth. Ask me anything Wads.
Reply #242 - Oct 9th, 2017 at 11:36am
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Wadsworth wrote on Oct 9th, 2017 at 8:08am:
Oh God Demos, No liberal today subscribe to a system in which the prices for goods and services are determined by the open market and consumers.  Liberals like to regulate the market.  You are confused or are you playing along with TL?  Not sure, but again. Today's liberals are the same as what you call a leftist.


lol

No liberal today?

What about Steve Horwitz? And Peter Boetkke? Bryan Caplan?

You would like to pretend that liberalism ended 300 years ago. But that claim has been shot down with reference to modern classical liberals.

So you are just moving from one indefensible position to another. It's like you just have to be wrong.
« Last Edit: Oct 9th, 2017 at 11:45am by TowardLiberty »  

"Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist." J M Keynes

"In the first place, the dichotomy between "theoretical" and "practical" is a false one. In economics, all arguments are theoretical. And, since economics discusses the real world, these theoretical arguments are by their nature "practical" ones as well." M Rothbard
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TowardLiberty
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Re: A Conversation With Wadsworth. Ask me anything Wads.
Reply #243 - Oct 9th, 2017 at 11:39am
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Wadsworth wrote on Oct 9th, 2017 at 8:12am:
No, you did not read the entire thread.  I never disagreed with the evolution of liberalism.  That was TL's thing to divert the conversation away from the simple fact that "today's liberal and what he and Q calls leftist are the same.  They want to act like they are totally different based on some B.S TL conjured up about liberal theories of some 300 years ago.  You are really misguided by TL if you don't realize that what he and Q call leftist are liberals who are not moderate and more extreme.  But go along with them if that is your thing. Roll Eyes

BS?

I thought we all just agree that classical liberalism is very different from leftwing ideas?

What happened?

I thought we had made real progress with you deepening your understanding of liberalism.

Was I wrong?
  

"Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist." J M Keynes

"In the first place, the dichotomy between "theoretical" and "practical" is a false one. In economics, all arguments are theoretical. And, since economics discusses the real world, these theoretical arguments are by their nature "practical" ones as well." M Rothbard
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TowardLiberty
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Re: A Conversation With Wadsworth. Ask me anything Wads.
Reply #244 - Oct 9th, 2017 at 11:41am
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Wadsworth wrote on Oct 9th, 2017 at 8:18am:
Who call themselves "classical Liberals" 


Hayek and Mises are great examples. Gordon Tullock, James Buchanan and Leland Yeager are also noteworthy.

Among many others, such as myself.

Quote:
Which is more a libertarian view of today than a liberal view. 


It's both.

Quote:
No liberal in this country today subscribes to their principles.  If I am wrong, then name one, just one. 


Steve Horwitz.

Quote:
Is it Hillary Clinton?  Chuck Schumer? How about Barrack Obama.  Name one.  Just one.

I could name dozens.

You were just given a Stanford article with a number of names of living classical liberals.
  

"Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist." J M Keynes

"In the first place, the dichotomy between "theoretical" and "practical" is a false one. In economics, all arguments are theoretical. And, since economics discusses the real world, these theoretical arguments are by their nature "practical" ones as well." M Rothbard
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Re: A Conversation With Wadsworth. Ask me anything Wads.
Reply #245 - Oct 9th, 2017 at 1:08pm
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TowardLiberty wrote on Oct 9th, 2017 at 11:30am:
Why are we talking about classical liberalism? Well, it's being challenged on all sides.

And since it is one of the greatest achievements of mankind and helped us get where we are today, I'd say that's a worthwhile discussion to have.

I certainly have no interest in discussing petty partisan politics, if that's what you are insinuating.

Far better to discuss political philosophy.

What you don't seem to understand is that classical liberalism is alive and well, today, in the here and now. There are many liberals and they are very different from left wingers. They are not Clinton or Obama voters, that is for sure.

We have already discussed the difference between liberalism and left liberalism. I don't think it needs to be done again!

So you took a simple question and blew it all out of proportion. You are talking about classical liberalism.  I am talking about talking about today's liberal.  Yes we have discussed the difference between today's liberals and the left and you evidence of difference was "classic liberals"  as usual, you have diverted the conversation after you call me dumb because I did not agree that there was any difference.  You evidence of difference was classical liberalism.  You are so full of shit, you should be flushed down the toilet.  Now since you are playing games again because you have not proven that today's liberals and the left believe in the same philosophy, I am through with your stupid ass.  I will not comment on this thread again to you anyway.  But I am sure the name calling by you will continue.

Again, you have shown no evidence that the liberal of today is any different than the left.  And your stupid ass discussion on classic liberals is no more than today's libertarian.
  

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Knowing the truth, seeing evidence of truth, but still believing the lie.
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TowardLiberty
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Re: A Conversation With Wadsworth. Ask me anything Wads.
Reply #246 - Oct 9th, 2017 at 1:27pm
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Wadsworth wrote on Oct 9th, 2017 at 1:08pm:
So you took a simple question and blew it all out of proportion. You are talking about classical liberalism.  I am talking about talking about today's liberal.  Yes we have discussed the difference between today's liberals and the left and you evidence of difference was "classic liberals"  as usual, you have diverted the conversation after you call me dumb because I did not agree that there was any difference.  You evidence of difference was classical liberalism.  You are so full of shit, you should be flushed down the toilet.  Now since you are playing games again because you have not proven that today's liberals and the left believe in the same philosophy, I am through with your stupid ass.  I will not comment on this thread again to you anyway.  But I am sure the name calling by you will continue.

Again, you have shown no evidence that the liberal of today is any different than the left.  And your stupid ass discussion on classic liberals is no more than today's libertarian.

I notice how you ignored the modern classical liberals I have listed.

You would like to pretend that the liberals today are somehow different from the classical liberals of yesterday. The problem is the there are modern classical liberals. Not every liberal is a lefty.

All you have in this post is badly worried insults and dismissal. You have no factual argument to make and nothing thoughtful to say.

You shouldn't be debating this stuff. You obviously have an inferiority complex and are trying to make up for it by proving something.

You can't. Stop trying.

Face reality.
  

"Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist." J M Keynes

"In the first place, the dichotomy between "theoretical" and "practical" is a false one. In economics, all arguments are theoretical. And, since economics discusses the real world, these theoretical arguments are by their nature "practical" ones as well." M Rothbard
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Demos
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Re: A Conversation With Wadsworth. Ask me anything Wads.
Reply #247 - Oct 9th, 2017 at 1:38pm
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Wadsworth wrote on Oct 9th, 2017 at 8:08am:
No liberal today subscribe to a system in which the prices for goods and services are determined by the open market and consumers.

 

Quote:
Liberals like to regulate the market.

Which is entirely different than what you just wrote above.
  
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Re: A Conversation With Wadsworth. Ask me anything Wads.
Reply #248 - Oct 9th, 2017 at 1:40pm
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Demos wrote on Oct 9th, 2017 at 1:38pm:
http://media.giphy.com/media/JqgRDINaY6y7S/giphy.gif 

Which is entirely different than what you just wrote above.

Grin Grin GrinVery funny.  I guess that means you have no rebuttal.  You are soo.... intelligent Roll Eyes
  

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Re: A Conversation With Wadsworth. Ask me anything Wads.
Reply #249 - Oct 9th, 2017 at 1:46pm
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Wadsworth wrote on Oct 9th, 2017 at 1:40pm:
I guess that means you have no rebuttal.

What's to rebut? You made a claim - "No liberal today subscribe[s] to a system in which the prices for goods and services are determined by the open market and consumers" - that has been thoroughly refuted throughout this thread. The only thing to do at this point is laugh that you actually made such a ludicrous statement.
  
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