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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Machine guns and the Second Amendment (Read 700 times)
Queshank
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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #10 - Oct 7th, 2017 at 10:21am
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"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery." --Thomas Jefferson , 1787

"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, 1787

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." -- Thomas Jefferson, 1774

"To disarm the people...[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them." -- George Mason, 1788

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops." -- Noah Webster, 1787

"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." -- Richard Henry Lee 1788

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun." -- Patrick Henry, 1778

"This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty.... The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction." -- St George Tucker, 1803

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." -- Samuel Adams, 1788

"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them." -- Joseph Story, 1833

"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers, may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual state. In a single state, if the persons intrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair." -- Alexander Hamilton, 1787

"As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms." -- Tench Coxe, 1789

Since we were quoting judges from 1990 I thought it appropriate to quote a few older judges and statesmen of repute.

Queshank

  

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Queshank
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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #11 - Oct 7th, 2017 at 10:26am
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On the other hand, if we think the Supreme Court "for 200 years" always got things right and we're going to pretend that's a valid argument ... as Nixon appointee Burger suggests, maybe we need to consider they were right on Plessy v Ferguson and Dred Scott v Sandford?

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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #12 - Oct 7th, 2017 at 10:29am
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I seldom weigh in on gun issues.  Maybe three times now with this thread in 15 years of posting here.  But I've really reached a point where I'm tired of the game and back and forth bullshit. 

Those who support gun control and support the criminalization of firearms need to start a push to revise the 2nd amendment.  Or it goes nowhere.

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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #13 - Oct 7th, 2017 at 4:09pm
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Queshank wrote on Oct 7th, 2017 at 10:29am:
I seldom weigh in on gun issues.  Maybe three times now with this thread in 15 years of posting here.  But I've really reached a point where I'm tired of the game and back and forth bullshit. 

Those who support gun control and support the criminalization of firearms need to start a push to revise the 2nd amendment.  Or it goes nowhere.

Queshank

In the other thread you hammered on the process whereby to make a change, but what do you specifically support limiting (if anything), assuming you got your Constitutional amendment? Where is YOUR line in the sand?
  

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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #14 - Oct 7th, 2017 at 4:13pm
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Cloistered Cyber Monk-Local47 wrote on Oct 7th, 2017 at 9:42am:
Correct.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

There's not one damn word in that about self defense.  It is, as you say, about the readiness and availability of State's militias rather than a standing Federal army.

The NRA, as Trump has done, preys on the stupidity of Americas.




The words "free state" should get you thinking in the right direction.
  
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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #15 - Oct 7th, 2017 at 4:19pm
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JohnnyBgood wrote on Oct 7th, 2017 at 9:05am:
the 2nd amendment came about to protect us from a British invasion.
Im not too worried. I think they'll leave us be.


Nope.  The second amendment, in essence, is about self-defense.  The threats in the days of the founders were of the kind (british invasions, indian attacks) for which the best defense was an organized one.  Ordinary violent crime was miniscule compared to what it is now.  NOW, it's not like the 1700s.  What is someone to do if someone armed with a gun  invades his home - call out the militia?  Grin  If he calls the police in most precincts of Detroit, Detroit's finest will show up on average 40 minutes later.  But dag nab it, he's DEAD by then.
  
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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #16 - Oct 7th, 2017 at 4:21pm
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Vypr wrote on Oct 7th, 2017 at 4:09pm:
In the other thread you hammered on the process whereby to make a change, but what do you specifically support limiting (if anything), assuming you got your Constitutional amendment? Where is YOUR line in the sand?


I have no limitations.  I have no line in the sand.

I don't believe sensationalizing these events should be the impetus to close the barn door after the cows have escaped.

I don't believe our society should be structured in such a way that we cater to the lowest common denominator.

I don't believe the freedoms and liberty of 350 million people should be dictated by "that one guy."

As Thomas Jefferson says ... I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.

And moreover I reject the flawed premise that we can do something to prevent this type of thing from happening.  Crazy always finds a way.

Queshank
  

Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told.

Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.
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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #17 - Oct 7th, 2017 at 4:24pm
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Queshank wrote on Oct 7th, 2017 at 10:26am:
On the other hand, if we think the Supreme Court "for 200 years" always got things right and we're going to pretend that's a valid argument ... as Nixon appointee Burger suggests, maybe we need to consider they were right on Plessy v Ferguson and Dred Scott v Sandford?

Queshank


Erroneous USSC decisions, of which there have been some big ones, are not the same thing as the articles of the Bill of Rights.  The remedy for the gun confiscationists is available for them any day they chose to exercise it - the constitutional amending process.
  
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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #18 - Oct 7th, 2017 at 4:32pm
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Queshank wrote on Oct 7th, 2017 at 4:21pm:
I have no limitations.  I have no line in the sand.



Queshank

Explosives included? Everything freely available with no limits?

Chemical weapons? Biological weapons?

If someone tries to bring in military weapons they bought at some black market in Africa for shooting down planes, ok?
  

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Queshank
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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #19 - Oct 7th, 2017 at 4:36pm
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Vypr wrote on Oct 7th, 2017 at 4:32pm:
Explosives included? Everything freely available with no limits?

Chemical weapons? Biological weapons?

If someone tries to bring in military weapons they bought at some black market in Africa for shooting down planes, ok?


Do you think people can't now if they wanted to?

Crazy people simply tend to lack the means.  It's worked out so far.

I mean ... we are talking about "some black market in Africa" no?  Do you imagine that legality is really a barrier?

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Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told.

Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.
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