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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Machine guns and the Second Amendment (Read 696 times)
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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #30 - Oct 7th, 2017 at 8:07pm
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Vypr wrote on Oct 7th, 2017 at 4:43pm:
Making VX is hard. You propose that "just because it might be possible" you would oppose preventing someone from selling it online? I would say a private citizen selling, buying, owning VX makes them a threat. There is no purpose in a private citizen owning VX other than wiping out mass numbers of people. Same for weaponized anthrax. You are saying you oppose making the ownership of these types of weapons illegal just because maybe someone might figure a way to make them?


Why isn't someone selling it now?  Is it perhaps because aside from governments that you would give the authority on these issues nobody wants to buy it?  If there was a market you don't think there'd be suppliers?

You're telling me you're deeply interested and motivated to pass spurious legislation?

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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #31 - Oct 7th, 2017 at 8:40pm
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Queshank wrote on Oct 7th, 2017 at 8:07pm:
Why isn't someone selling it now?  Is it perhaps because aside from governments that you would give the authority on these issues nobody wants to buy it?  If there was a market you don't think there'd be suppliers?

You're telling me you're deeply interested and motivated to pass spurious legislation?

Queshank

Because it is currently very ILLEGAL to sell, buy or own and they will track you down with the assumption you are a terrorist. You are saying you would eliminate those restrictions.
  

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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #32 - Oct 7th, 2017 at 8:52pm
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Cloistered Cyber Monk-Local47 wrote on Oct 7th, 2017 at 9:42am:
Correct.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

There's not one damn word in that about self defense.  It is, as you say, about the readiness and availability of State's militias rather than a standing Federal army.

The NRA, as Trump has done, preys on the stupidity of Americas.





I am an NRA member. We are far from as stupid as you are. We have a right to defend ourselves from not only a crooked government. But any criminal that choses to kill, rob, rape, or whatever.


If the millions of citizens were not armed, do you think that if all guns were taken away that a political party would become tyrannical like little fat boy in N. Korea?
The second amendment is there to prevent that from happening.
And just so you know. Most American military would not fight on the side of a dictator. And if they did, they would lose anyway.

So who will fight the government’s war?
There are around 1.4 million US servicemen and women in the US military: Active, reservists, and National Guardsmen. These men and women (if none of them deserted) would be fighting against nearly 80 million households. What if only half of the households decided not to fight? Then there would still be 40 million households against a 1.4 million man force.
According to the Geneva-based Small Arms Survey – the leading source of international public information about firearms – the U.S. has the best-armed civilian population in the world, with an estimated 270 million total guns. That’s an average of 90 firearms for every 100 resident.


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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #33 - Oct 7th, 2017 at 8:54pm
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Vypr wrote on Oct 7th, 2017 at 8:40pm:
Because it is currently very ILLEGAL to sell, buy or own and they will track you down with the assumption you are a terrorist. You are saying you would eliminate those restrictions.


And we all know the reason nobody is going to buy those things because they're illegal, right?

That's how we stopped all the drug use in America after all.

(Sorry to pull out a meme but it seems to fit here.)

But seriously.

You seem to be implying the only reason some crazy white dude in America hasn't bought nerve agents from the black market in Africa in order to use it in a shopping mall in New Jersey is because it's illegal.

I disagree.

The type of person who is unhinged enough to want to use nerve agent in a shopping mall in New Jersey lacks the means, when governments are so willing to pay top dollar to purchase these items, I don't imagine they're exactly cheap on the black market.

Which of the mass shooters in the past 20 years do you think was in the nerve agent market?

But let's just say there's some imaginary Criminal Mastermind X out there ... an unhinged person wants to use nerve agent in a shopping mall in New Jersey and has the means to do it ... he can do it whether it's legal or illegal.

I think television crime shows, comic books and tv shows like 24 have given people an incredibly distorted view on this subject.  And I mean no disrespect or insult by that.  I'm just floating that as a possibility for why this is a subject of conversation.

Queshank
« Last Edit: Oct 7th, 2017 at 9:01pm by Queshank »  

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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #34 - Oct 7th, 2017 at 8:58pm
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Vypr wrote on Oct 7th, 2017 at 4:50pm:
Ask someone on the left. My position is that certain weapons should not be available due to their massive destructive power. The question is where is that line drawn? Some people feel that to draw any line whatsoever is somehow an automatic slippery slope, "today my nerve gas and small pox, tomorrow my rifle and shotgun". That type of 100% absolutist position is ridiculous and nothing more than a thought experiment for people who are clueless about the real world. Almost everyone to a man, woman and child, when faced with a twitchy neighbor who just bought a drum of nerve gas off the darknet (or apparently "legit" markets if some would have their way) would have a major problem with that. It would not be acceptable.


If your twitchy neighbor buys some nerve gas, shoot the bastard before he uses it. That is why you have a gun.
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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #35 - Oct 7th, 2017 at 9:12pm
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Queshank wrote on Oct 7th, 2017 at 8:54pm:
And we all know the reason nobody is going to buy those things because they're illegal, right?

That's how we stopped all the drug use in America after all.

(Sorry to pull out a meme but it seems to fit here.)

But seriously.

You seem to be implying the only reason some crazy white dude in America hasn't bought nerve agents from the black market in Africa in order to use it in a shopping mall in New Jersey is because it's illegal.

I disagree.

The type of person who is unhinged enough to want to use nerve agent in a shopping mall in New Jersey lacks the means, when governments are so willing to pay top dollar to purchase these items, I don't imagine they're exactly cheap on the black market.

Which of the mass shooters in the past 20 years do you think was in the nerve agent market?

But let's just say there's some imaginary Criminal Mastermind X out there ... an unhinged person wants to use nerve agent in a shopping mall in New Jersey and has the means to do it ... he can do it whether it's legal or illegal.

I think television crime shows, comic books and tv shows like 24 have given people an incredibly distorted view on this subject.  And I mean no disrespect or insult by that.  I'm just floating that as a possibility for why this is a subject of conversation.

Queshank

No, nerve gas is hard to get because it is so massively illegal. Even the ingredients are monitored for much of this stuff. The crazy guy can't get VX because if you sell it you are likely to end up in prison for the rest of your life and just about every govt on the planet will leave no stone unturned helping to find you. There IS NO BLACK MARKET because it is so controlled.

Restrictions DO WORK on this type of thing, and you seem to want to make the argument to end them because somehow this control is an illusion, when in fact it is not.
« Last Edit: Oct 7th, 2017 at 9:25pm by Vypr »  

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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #36 - Oct 7th, 2017 at 9:41pm
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Say what?

1.      List of U.S. Militia Groups » DarkGovernment
www.darkgovernment.com/news/list-of-u-s-militia-groups
To support the South Carolina and United States unorganized militia ... and the United States of America against all ... 2017 DarkGovernment Log in - All ...

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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #37 - Oct 7th, 2017 at 9:53pm
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Yep, those bad machine guns. Go ahead and take them, if you dare.

1.      VIDEO]
Knob Creek Machine Gun Shoot Night Shoot - …
Click to view on Bing
2:02

www.youtube.com/watch?v=31vm3-BQRJU
o      By russward1 ·
o      730K views
Apr 11, 2006 · Originally shot for a NBC segment show but Columbine happened right after so the execs killed it for …

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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #38 - Oct 8th, 2017 at 10:22am
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Vypr wrote on Oct 7th, 2017 at 9:12pm:
No, nerve gas is hard to get because it is so massively illegal. Even the ingredients are monitored for much of this stuff. The crazy guy can't get VX because if you sell it you are likely to end up in prison for the rest of your life and just about every govt on the planet will leave no stone unturned helping to find you. There IS NO BLACK MARKET because it is so controlled.

Restrictions DO WORK on this type of thing, and you seem to want to make the argument to end them because somehow this control is an illusion, when in fact it is not.


Whatever you say man.  But I think the illusion here lies somewhere between your assertion that nerve gas is hard to get immediately followed by your assertion the ingredients are monitored for this stuff.  Do you even know what the ingredients are or how easy/hard they are to get?  If you don't know then you're simply making shit up.

There absolutely is a black market for this stuff.  Just like there's a black market for nukes.  Or do you think multiple nations simply repeatedly invented sarin gas and mustard gas?

Sarin gas for example is so difficult to make that the only non government to ever make it was the Japanese cult Aum Shinrikyo.  And remember when they used it on a subway in Japan in the mid 90s?   It cost them 30 million to build the plant and create the stuff 2 gallons at a time and they were only able to use it twice.  They had to spend 30 million to build the plant because the odds of the creator killing themselves making it are more likely than the creator producing usable agents.  And they killed 12 people in 5 attacks.

Again, which mass shooter is in the market?

It's cheaper and more effective to use bullets.

You watch too much television.

But I do appreciate the way you tried to walk my "modify the 2nd amendment if you want gun control" and "our government was stupid not to do this when they could have" into "You want your next door neighbor making sarin gas in a bathtub!!!111!"  Bravo to you for creativity.

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Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.
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Queshank
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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #39 - Oct 8th, 2017 at 10:27am
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Oh, and before you go off on a tangent "I said VX not sarin" ... Aum Shinrikyo used VX too in the mid 90s to kill a whopping 1 people and injure 2 others.  Now that's bang for your buck!

Queshank
  

Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told.

Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.
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