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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Machine guns and the Second Amendment (Read 698 times)
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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #40 - Oct 8th, 2017 at 11:13am
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Archie wrote on Oct 7th, 2017 at 8:52pm:
I am an NRA member. We are far from as stupid as you are. We have a right to defend ourselves from not only a crooked government. But any criminal that choses to kill, rob, rape, or whatever.


If the millions of citizens were not armed, do you think that if all guns were taken away that a political party would become tyrannical like little fat boy in N. Korea?
The second amendment is there to prevent that from happening.
And just so you know. Most American military would not fight on the side of a dictator. And if they did, they would lose anyway.

So who will fight the government’s war?
There are around 1.4 million US servicemen and women in the US military: Active, reservists, and National Guardsmen. These men and women (if none of them deserted) would be fighting against nearly 80 million households. What if only half of the households decided not to fight? Then there would still be 40 million households against a 1.4 million man force.
According to the Geneva-based Small Arms Survey – the leading source of international public information about firearms – the U.S. has the best-armed civilian population in the world, with an estimated 270 million total guns. That’s an average of 90 firearms for every 100 resident.


Smiley

Land invasion would be a bad idea. It would be Normandy, iwo jima then a taste of Vietnam.
  

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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #41 - Oct 8th, 2017 at 11:14am
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Queshank wrote on Oct 8th, 2017 at 10:22am:
Whatever you say man.  But I think the illusion here lies somewhere between your assertion that nerve gas is hard to get immediately followed by your assertion the ingredients are monitored for this stuff.  Do you even know what the ingredients are or how easy/hard they are to get?  If you don't know then you're simply making shit up.


Ingredients are monitored you forum fool.

Controlled Chemicals

The chemicals, which are explicitly specified in the Convention for monitoring purposes, cover a wide range of compounds and include chemical warfare agents, as well as key and more distant precursors. These chemical compounds, or families of compounds, are listed in the three Schedules of the Convention’s Annex on Chemicals. Each of these Schedules has different requirements for verification. These requirements are more stringent in the case of those chemicals that are deemed to pose a greater risk. The Verification Annex also includes restrictions on the international transfer of scheduled chemicals.
Schedule 1 chemicals include those that have been or can be easily used as chemical weapons and which have very limited, if any, uses for peaceful purposes. These chemicals are subject to very stringent restrictions, including a ceiling on the production of one tonne per annum per State Party, a ceiling on total possession at any given time of one tonne per State Party, licensing requirements, and restrictions on transfers. These restrictions apply to the relatively few industrial facilities that use Schedule 1 chemicals. Some Schedule 1 chemicals are used as ingredients in pharmaceutical preparations or as diagnostics. The Schedule 1 chemical saxitoxin is used as a calibration standard in monitoring programmes for paralytic shellfish poisoning, and is also used in neurological research. Ricin, another Schedule 1 chemical, has been employed as a bio-medical research tool. Some Schedule 1 chemicals and/or their salts are used in medicine as anti-neoplastic agents. Other Schedule 1 chemicals are usually produced and used for protective purposes, such as for testing CW protective equipment and chemical agent alarms.
Schedule 2 chemicals include those that are precursors to, or that in some cases can themselves be used as, chemical weapons agents, but which have a number of other commercial uses (such as ingredients in resins, flame-retardants, additives, inks and dyes, insecticides, herbicides, lubricants and some raw materials for pharmaceutical products). For example, BZ is a neurotoxic chemical listed under Schedule 2, which is also an industrial intermediate in the manufacture of pharmaceuticals such as clindinium bromide. Thiodiglycol is both a mustard gas precursor as well as an ingredient in water-based inks, dyes and some resins. Another such example is DMMP, a chemical related to certain nerve agent precursors that is used as a flame retardant in textiles and foamed plastic products.
Schedule 3 chemicals include those that can be used to produce, or can be used as, chemical weapons, but which are widely used for peaceful purposes (including plastics, resins, mining chemicals, petroleum refining fumigants, paints, coatings, anti-static agents and lubricants). Among the toxic chemicals listed under Schedule 3 are phosgene and hydrogen cyanide, which have been used as chemical weapons, but are also utilised in the manufacture of polycarbonate resins and polyurethane plastics, as well as certain agricultural chemicals. Triethanolamine, a precursor chemical for nitrogen mustard gas, is found in a variety of detergents (including shampoos, bubble baths and household cleaners) as well as being used in the desulfurisation of fuel gas streams.
Discrete Organic Chemicals
Among those chemicals not specifically listed in the Schedules or anywhere in the Convention are discrete organic chemicals (DOCs). Manufacturing operations producing DOCs are referred to as “other chemical production facilities”. These plant sites are subject to declarations and verification requirements if they produce in aggregate more than 200 tonnes of DOCs annually. They are also subject to these requirements if they comprise plants at which more than 30 tonnes of any DOCs containing the elements phosphorous, sulfur or fluorine (PSF chemicals) are produced. Thousands of plant sites have been declared to the Technical Secretariat.

https://www.opcw.org/our-work/non-proliferation/controlled-chemicals/
  

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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #42 - Oct 8th, 2017 at 11:15am
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Annex on Chemicals
In this annex:
A. Guidelines for Schedules of Chemicals
B. Schedules of Chemicals
A. Guidelines for Schedules of Chemicals
Guidelines for Schedule 1
1. The following criteria shall be taken into account in considering whether a toxic chemical or precursor should be included in Schedule 1:

(a) It has been developed, produced, stockpiled or used as a chemical weapon as defined in Article II;

(b) It poses otherwise a high risk to the object and purpose of this Convention by virtue of its high potential for use in activities prohibited under this Convention because one or more of the following conditions are met:

(i) It possesses a chemical structure closely related to that of other toxic chemicals listed in Schedule 1, and has, or can be expected to have, comparable properties;

(ii) It possesses such lethal or incapacitating toxicity as well as other properties that would enable it to be used as a chemical weapon;

(iii) It may be used as a precursor in the final single technological stage of production of a toxic chemical listed in Schedule 1, regardless of whether this stage takes place in facilities, in munitions or elsewhere;

(c) It has little or no use for purposes not prohibited under this Convention.
Guidelines for Schedule 2
2. The following criteria shall be taken into account in considering whether a toxic chemical not listed in Schedule 1 or a precursor to a Schedule 1 chemical or to a chemical listed in Schedule 2, part A, should be included in Schedule 2:

(a) It poses a significant risk to the object and purpose of this Convention because it possesses such lethal or incapacitating toxicity as well as other properties that could enable it to be used as a chemical weapon;

(b) It may be used as a precursor in one of the chemical reactions at the final stage of formation of a chemical listed in Schedule 1 or Schedule 2, part A;

(c) It poses a significant risk to the object and purpose of this Convention by virtue of its importance in the production of a chemical listed in Schedule 1 or Schedule 2, part A;

(d) It is not produced in large commercial quantities for purposes not prohibited under this Convention.
Guidelines for Schedule 3
3. The following criteria shall be taken into account in considering whether a toxic chemical or precursor, not listed in other Schedules, should be included in Schedule 3:

(a) It has been produced, stockpiled or used as a chemical weapon;

(b) It poses otherwise a risk to the object and purpose of this Convention because it possesses such lethal or incapacitating toxicity as well as other properties that might enable it to be used as a chemical weapon;

(c) It poses a risk to the object and purpose of this Convention by virtue of its importance in the production of one or more chemicals listed in Schedule 1 or Schedule 2, part B;

(d) It may be produced in large commercial quantities for purposes not prohibited under this Convention.
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B. Schedules of Chemicals
The following Schedules list toxic chemicals and their precursors. For the purpose of implementing this Convention, these Schedules identify chemicals for the application of verification measures according to the provisions of the Verification Annex. Pursuant to Article II, subparagraph 1 (a), these Schedules do not constitute a definition of chemical weapons.

(Whenever reference is made to groups of dialkylated chemicals, followed by a list of alkyl groups in parentheses, all chemicals possible by all possible combinations of alkyl groups listed in the parentheses are considered as listed in the respective Schedule as long as they are not explicitly exempted. A chemical marked "*" on Schedule 2, part A, is subject to special thresholds for declaration and verification, as specified in Part VII of the Verification Annex.)

https://www.opcw.org/chemical-weapons-convention/annexes/annex-on-chemicals/
  

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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #43 - Oct 8th, 2017 at 11:15am
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Schedule 1
In this list:
A. Toxic Chemicals
B. Precursors
A. Toxic Chemicals
(CAS Registry number)
(1)      O-Alkyl (<=C10, incl. cycloalkyl) alkyl (Me, Et, n-Pr or i-Pr)-phosphonofluoridates      
e.g.      Sarin: O-Isopropyl methylphosphonofluoridate      (107-44-8)
Soman: O-Pinacolyl methylphosphonofluoridate      (96-64-0)
(2)      O-Alkyl (<=C10, incl. cycloalkyl) N,N-dialkyl (Me, Et, n-Pr or i-Pr) phosphoramidocyanidates      
e.g.      Tabun:O-Ethyl N,N-dimethyl phosphoramidocyanidate      (77-81-6)
(3)      O-Alkyl (H or <=C10, incl. cycloalkyl) S-2-dialkyl (Me, Et, n-Pr or i-Pr)-aminoethyl alkyl (Me, Et, n-Pr or i-Pr) phosphonothiolates and corresponding alkylated or protonated salts      
e.g.      VX: O-Ethyl S-2-diisopropylaminoethyl methyl phosphonothiolate      (50782-69-9)
(4)      Sulfur mustards:      
2-Chloroethylchloromethylsulfide      (2625-76-5)
Mustard gas: Bis(2-chloroethyl)sulfide      (505-60-2)
Bis(2-chloroethylthio)methane      (63869-13-6)
Sesquimustard: 1,2-Bis(2-chloroethylthio)ethane      (3563-36-8)
1,3-Bis(2-chloroethylthio)-n-propane      (63905-10-2)
1,4-Bis(2-chloroethylthio)-n-butane      (142868-93-7)
1,5-Bis(2-chloroethylthio)-n-pentane      (142868-94-8)
Bis(2-chloroethylthiomethyl)ether      (63918-90-1)
O-Mustard: Bis(2-chloroethylthioethyl)ether      (63918-89-8)
(5)      Lewisites:      
Lewisite 1: 2-Chlorovinyldichloroarsine      (541-25-3)
Lewisite 2: Bis(2-chlorovinyl)chloroarsine      (40334-69-8)
Lewisite 3: Tris(2-chlorovinyl)arsine      (40334-70-1)
(6)      Nitrogen mustards:      
HN1: Bis(2-chloroethyl)ethylamine      (538-07-8)
HN2: Bis(2-chloroethyl)methylamine      (51-75-2)
HN3: Tris(2-chloroethyl)amine      (555-77-1)
(7)      Saxitoxin      (35523-89-8)
(8)      Ricin      (9009-86-3)
B. Precursors
(CAS Registry number)
(9)      Alkyl (Me, Et, n-Pr or i-Pr) phosphonyldifluorides      
e.g.      DF: Methylphosphonyldifluoride      (676-99-3)
(10)      O-Alkyl (H or <=C10, incl. cycloalkyl) O-2-dalkyl (Me, Et, n-Pr or i-Pr)-aminoethyl alkyl (Me, Et, n-Pr or i-Pr) phosphonites and corresponding alkylated or protonated salts      
e.g.      QL: O-Ethyl O-2-diisopropylaminoethyl methylphosphonite      (57856-11-8)
(11)      Chlorosarin: O-Isopropyl methylphosphonochloridate      (1445-76-7)
(12)      Chlorosoman: O-Pinacolyl methylphosphonochloridate      (7040-57-5)


https://www.opcw.org/chemical-weapons-convention/annexes/annex-on-chemicals/sche...
  

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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #44 - Oct 8th, 2017 at 11:16am
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Schedule 2
In this list:
A. Toxic Chemicals
B. Precursors
A. Toxic Chemicals
(CAS Registry number)
(1)      Amiton: O,O-Diethyl S-[2-(diethylamino)ethyl] phosphorothiolate      (78-53-5)
and corresponding alkylated or protonated salts      
(2)      PFIB: 1,1,3,3,3-Pentafluoro-2-(trifluoromethyl)-1-propene      (382-21-8)
(3)      BZ: 3-Quinuclidinyl benzilate (*)      (6581-06-2)
B. Precursors
(CAS Registry number)
(4)      Chemicals, except for those listed in Schedule 1, containing a phosphorus atom to which is bonded one methyl, ethyl or propyl (normal or iso) group but not further carbon atoms,      
e.g      Methylphosphonyl dichloride      (676-97-1)
Dimethyl methylphosphonate      (756-79-6)
Exemption: Fonofos:      O-Ethyl S-phenyl ethylphosphonothiolothionate      (944-22-9)
(5)      N,N-Dialkyl (Me, Et, n-Pr or i-Pr) phosphoramidic dihalides      
(6)      Dialkyl (Me, Et, n-Pr or i-Pr) N,N-dialkyl (Me, Et, n-Pr or i-Pr)-phosphoramidates      
(7)      Arsenic trichloride      (7784-34-1)
(8)      2,2-Diphenyl-2-hydroxyacetic acid      (76-93-7)
(9)      Quinuclidin-3-ol      (1619-34-7)
(10)      N,N-Dialkyl (Me, Et, n-Pr or i-Pr) aminoethyl-2-chlorides and corresponding protonated salts      
(11)      N,N-Dialkyl (Me, Et, n-Pr or i-Pr) aminoethane-2-ols and corresponding protonated salts      
Exemptions:      N,N-Dimethylaminoethanol      (108-01-0)
and corresponding protonated salts      
N,N-Diethylaminoethanol      (100-37-8)
and corresponding protonated salts      
(12)      N,N-Dialkyl (Me, Et, n-Pr or i-Pr) aminoethane-2-thiols and corresponding protonated salts      
(13)      Thiodiglycol: Bis(2-hydroxyethyl)sulfide      (111-48-8)
(14)      Pinacolyl alcohol: 3,3-Dimethylbutan-2-ol      (464-07-3)
  

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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #45 - Oct 8th, 2017 at 11:18am
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Queshank wrote on Oct 8th, 2017 at 10:22am:
Queshank


But you would kill all controls in the name of some theoretical argument that restrictions don't work. You're a f**king idiot. My mistake for taking you seriously before. You just say this shit to entertain yourself.
  

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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #46 - Oct 8th, 2017 at 11:21am
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Vypr wrote on Oct 8th, 2017 at 11:18am:
But you would kill all controls in the name of some theoretical argument that restrictions don't work. You're a f**king idiot. My mistake for taking you seriously before. You just say this shit to entertain yourself.


An idiot is someone who ignores the fact that terrorists have already tried this route and it's incredibly expensive for not much end result.

Nice try tho.

More specifically ... nice dodge attempt.

Queshank
  

Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told.

Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.
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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #47 - Oct 8th, 2017 at 11:22am
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Go ahead and mix up a batch in your bathtub now Vypr.  Give it a try.  See if you can figure out the right combination without dying first. 

Since you looked up the list.  You can thank me for putting you on a terrorist watch list now lol

Queshank
  

Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told.

Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.
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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #48 - Oct 8th, 2017 at 11:30am
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Vypr I do want to help you understand how distorted your reality is by television and comic books tho.  Here's a helpful link. 

https://www.pri.org/stories/2013-10-11/why-its-bad-idea-make-sarin-gas-your-kitc...

He said don't try this in your kitchen. "If you try to do it, you are probably going to kill yourself."

"It takes some fairly complicated chemical engineering procedures to do it," he says, "because the ingredients, some of them are frankly more dangerous than the sarin itself, like hydrogen fluoride, which is one of the most corrosive and dangerous substances on the planet."

You can get some of the materials to make it, but not others, he says. "It's not methamphetamine."

Kaszeta says the only non-state group to make any significant amount of sarin was the Japanese terror cult, Aum Shinrikyo, which released it in a Tokyo subway in 1995.

"They actually spent millions of dollars, had over a dozen chemists and chemical engineers on their payroll, built a 3-story laboratory with some very good, very complicated, expensive equipment bought through front companies and they could make maybe 8 liters of sarin."


It's not "gun control" that prevents people from making nerve agents to kill people.

It's expense, dispersion and the fact that it's not reliable.

http://warincontext.org/2013/12/11/how-easy-is-it-to-make-sarin/

“Weaponizing” chemical agents requires munitions that disperse the substances in droplets, which can kill on skin contact, or vapor, which can be lethal if inhaled. But most explosive devices within the technological reach of terrorists would either destroy most of the chemical agents upon detonation or fail to effectively disperse them.

Spraying also can effectively disperse chemical agents. But most experts believe that 90 percent of any agent sprayed outdoors will not reach its intended targets in lethal form, given the vagaries of temperature, sunlight, wind and rain. Pumping chemical or biological agents into a building’s indoor ventilation system is no easy task either, requiring detailed knowledge of how air is distributed from floor to floor.

In Aum Shinrikyo’s first attempt to attack a rival group by spraying sarin gas from a moving van, Smithson notes, “the sprayer completely malfunctioned and sprayed backwards.” The second attempt ended up exposing the group’s security chief to the toxic nerve agent.


Again I ask you.

Which mass shooter in the past 20 years is in the market for nerve agents?

Run us through your scenario (a scenario that already played out in the movie The Rock) and tell us how Walter White breaks bad and mixes up a batch in an RV in the desert.

Queshank
  

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Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.
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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #49 - Oct 8th, 2017 at 11:36am
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Queshank wrote on Oct 8th, 2017 at 11:21am:
An idiot is someone who ignores the fact that terrorists have already tried this route and it's incredibly expensive for not much end result.

Nice try tho.

More specifically ... nice dodge attempt.

Queshank


You would make it cheap or cheaper by eliminating restrictions which you falsely claimed don't work. They do work. You lost that debate. Restrictions on some things can make them unavailable or prohibitively expensive. It does work and yes, for point of reference the ingredients of chemical weapons are restricted, regulated and monitored. Right now only nation states have the ability to get around these restrictions in a significant fashion. And you would undo that. Sorry, your position is untenable.
  

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