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Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › Machine guns and the Second Amendment
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Machine guns and the Second Amendment (Read 1,371 times)
Queshank
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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #50 - Oct 8th, 2017 at 11:38am
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Vypr wrote on Oct 8th, 2017 at 11:36am:
You would make it cheap or cheaper by eliminating restrictions which you falsely claimed don't work. They do work. You lost that debate. Restrictions on some things can make them unavailable or prohibitively expensive. It does work and yes, for point of reference the ingredients of chemical weapons are restricted, regulated and monitored. Right now only nation states have the ability to get around these restrictions in a significant fashion. And you would undo that. Sorry, your position is untenable.


You would still need a dozen chemists to make it.

I'm sure they'll work for free.

I'm sure Dylan Roof has some on speed dial.

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Vypr
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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #51 - Oct 8th, 2017 at 11:39am
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Queshank wrote on Oct 8th, 2017 at 11:30am:
Vypr I do want to help you understand how distorted your reality is by television and comic books tho.  Here's a helpful link. 

https://www.pri.org/stories/2013-10-11/why-its-bad-idea-make-sarin-gas-your-kitc...

He said don't try this in your kitchen. "If you try to do it, you are probably going to kill yourself."

"It takes some fairly complicated chemical engineering procedures to do it," he says, "because the ingredients, some of them are frankly more dangerous than the sarin itself, like hydrogen fluoride, which is one of the most corrosive and dangerous substances on the planet."

You can get some of the materials to make it, but not others, he says. "It's not methamphetamine."

Kaszeta says the only non-state group to make any significant amount of sarin was the Japanese terror cult, Aum Shinrikyo, which released it in a Tokyo subway in 1995.

"They actually spent millions of dollars, had over a dozen chemists and chemical engineers on their payroll, built a 3-story laboratory with some very good, very complicated, expensive equipment bought through front companies and they could make maybe 8 liters of sarin."


It's not "gun control" that prevents people from making nerve agents to kill people.

It's expense, dispersion and the fact that it's not reliable.

http://warincontext.org/2013/12/11/how-easy-is-it-to-make-sarin/

“Weaponizing” chemical agents requires munitions that disperse the substances in droplets, which can kill on skin contact, or vapor, which can be lethal if inhaled. But most explosive devices within the technological reach of terrorists would either destroy most of the chemical agents upon detonation or fail to effectively disperse them.

Spraying also can effectively disperse chemical agents. But most experts believe that 90 percent of any agent sprayed outdoors will not reach its intended targets in lethal form, given the vagaries of temperature, sunlight, wind and rain. Pumping chemical or biological agents into a building’s indoor ventilation system is no easy task either, requiring detailed knowledge of how air is distributed from floor to floor.

In Aum Shinrikyo’s first attempt to attack a rival group by spraying sarin gas from a moving van, Smithson notes, “the sprayer completely malfunctioned and sprayed backwards.” The second attempt ended up exposing the group’s security chief to the toxic nerve agent.


Again I ask you.

Which mass shooter in the past 20 years is in the market for nerve agents?

Run us through your scenario (a scenario that already played out in the movie The Rock) and tell us how Walter White breaks bad and mixes up a batch in an RV in the desert.

Queshank


Dumbass Q, I wasn't arguing making the shit in a bathtub. That's your attempt at deflection. You would remove restrictions on even the final product. So if some chemical plant in Uzbekistan decided to sell it, and if some fool in the US decided to stock it, in your imaginary world, there should be no restrictions. Again, you are delusional.
  

A rare moment of candid truth from NorthKoreanFrogmanInvasion(!!), aka ReeweeWittoBwain:   RWB wrote on Nov 15th, 2017 at 9:32am:
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Queshank
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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #52 - Oct 8th, 2017 at 11:40am
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You're also ignoring the fact that Aum Shinrikyo was able to make some regardless of its legality.

Don't they know they can't do that!??!  IT'S ILLEGAL!

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BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #53 - Oct 8th, 2017 at 11:42am
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Vypr wrote on Oct 8th, 2017 at 11:39am:
Dumbass Q, I wasn't arguing making the shit in a bathtub. That's your attempt at deflection. You would remove restrictions on even the final product. So if some chemical plant in Uzbekistan decided to sell it, and if some fool in the US decided to stock it, in your imaginary world, there should be no restrictions. Again, you are delusional.


And now you're back to arguing that unhinged people who want to kill massive amounts of people  have the means to purchase sarin gas.

Because of course the successful uses in the past of killing less than 1/4th the number of people the Las Vegas shooter did is an incredibly attractive option.

That is the imaginary world Vypr.  Just stop.  You're doubling down on a stupid argument and making it stupider.

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BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
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Vypr
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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #54 - Oct 8th, 2017 at 11:43am
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Queshank wrote on Oct 8th, 2017 at 11:38am:
You would still need a dozen chemists to make it.

I'm sure they'll work for free.

I'm sure Dylan Roof has some on speed dial.

Queshank

If you removed regulation markets would develop and it would be produced. Price would drop because the legal risk is gone. Again, you have lost this argument. Extreme materials like this, and nukes, and bio weapons are successfully controlled. You would erroneously remove those restrictions based on some theoretical fanciful idea that restrictions never work. You're wrong.
  

A rare moment of candid truth from NorthKoreanFrogmanInvasion(!!), aka ReeweeWittoBwain:   RWB wrote on Nov 15th, 2017 at 9:32am:
Trump's an idiot everyone knows that
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Queshank
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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #55 - Oct 8th, 2017 at 11:44am
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Vypr wrote on Oct 8th, 2017 at 11:43am:
If you removed regulation markets would develop and it would be produced. Price would drop because the legal risk is gone. Again, you have lost this argument. Extreme materials like this, and nukes, and bio weapons are successfully controlled. You would erroneously remove those restrictions based on some theoretical fanciful idea that restrictions never work. You're wrong.


Yeah I'm sure if the components were unrestricted dozens of chemists would work for minimum wage to create the stuff and kill 12 people.

Sounds incredibly plausible to me too.

Queshank
  

BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
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Vypr
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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #56 - Oct 8th, 2017 at 11:46am
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Queshank wrote on Oct 8th, 2017 at 11:42am:
And now you're back to arguing that unhinged people who want to kill massive amounts of people  have the means to purchase sarin gas.

Because of course the successful uses in the past of killing less than 1/4th the number of people the Las Vegas shooter did is an incredibly attractive option.

That is the imaginary world Vypr.  Just stop.  You're doubling down on a stupid argument and making it stupider.

Queshank


Restrictions work. You keep trying your junior debate tricks by rabbit holing the main point. Sorry, when regulated and monitored some things can be effectively eliminated from public availability.
  

A rare moment of candid truth from NorthKoreanFrogmanInvasion(!!), aka ReeweeWittoBwain:   RWB wrote on Nov 15th, 2017 at 9:32am:
Trump's an idiot everyone knows that
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Vypr
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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #57 - Oct 8th, 2017 at 11:55am
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And just because restrictions work on the more extreme stuff, it doesn't mean your shotgun or rifle is at risk. It means that there are limits to what should be allowed and when enforced, those limits can work. There are no "fundamental rights" to every weapon ever created just because people want to avoid some theoretical slippery slope.
  

A rare moment of candid truth from NorthKoreanFrogmanInvasion(!!), aka ReeweeWittoBwain:   RWB wrote on Nov 15th, 2017 at 9:32am:
Trump's an idiot everyone knows that
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Queshank
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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #58 - Oct 8th, 2017 at 12:11pm
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Vypr wrote on Oct 8th, 2017 at 11:46am:
Restrictions work. You keep trying your junior debate tricks by rabbit holing the main point. Sorry, when regulated and monitored some things can be effectively eliminated from public availability.


You're not debating Vypr you're spouting talking points.

It's not regulation and monitoring that prevents sarin gas from being available in Walmart's hunting section.

It's lack of demand.  Because nobody wants the shit besides governments. 

You imagine some black market enterprise shop setting up in Vyprstan to mass market the shit. 

Where's their profit margin come from? 

Queshank
  

BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
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Re: Machine guns and the Second Amendment
Reply #59 - Oct 8th, 2017 at 12:22pm
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But look how you've walked away from and dodged the fact that none of the proposals that have been put forth would stop mass shootings.

I will remind you again.  The Virginia Tech shooter used two pistols.  A .22 and a 9mm.  And as of 2007 it was the most horrific mass shooting in "modern US history."   32 people dead.

The response?

We gotta ban assault rifles!

There is no logical connection between the stated goals of the gun control crowd and preventing these mass shootings.  We have come back full circle to my initial argument.  If you really give a shit about gun deaths you need to address the problem.  The 2nd amendment.  Everything else is what you've been doing for the past 2 pages.  Blowing smoke.

Queshank
  

BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
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