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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) extreme unction (Read 1,141 times)
Seawolf
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Re: extreme unction
Reply #40 - Oct 17th, 2017 at 4:32pm
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Capt. Lola B.S.C. wrote on Oct 17th, 2017 at 2:33pm:
It makes sense to concoct yet another reason to keep people living in perpetual fear of death and the afterlife.  They needed a way to keep the church in complete control of your lives. From birth to grave. 

At birth, a priest MUST baptize the baby or it burns for eternity. At your death, you MUST have the priest rush to your home in hopes of administering these last rituals while the patient is still conscious, though there is a rule apparently that the priest can still give the rights even if he's late.  If he's a no show, you can do it yourself but I assume it's like weaker or amateur, so the loved one probably only gets some heaven, like on the weekends maybe.


Catholicism it appears.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: extreme unction
Reply #41 - Oct 17th, 2017 at 6:58pm
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Seawolf wrote on Oct 17th, 2017 at 4:32pm:
Catholicism it appears.


Yeah, that's only seventy five percent of all Christians, IOW nothing... Roll Eyes
  

Non sequitur:

The Wet Dreams of Mr Cousteau wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
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Seawolf
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Re: extreme unction
Reply #42 - Oct 17th, 2017 at 8:10pm
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BowHunter wrote on Oct 17th, 2017 at 6:58pm:
Yeah, that's only seventy five percent of all Christians, IOW nothing... Roll Eyes

And?  You do not get to heaven based on your religion, but I have told you this over and over and you ignore it so...
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Capt. Lola B.S.C.
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Re: extreme unction
Reply #43 - Oct 17th, 2017 at 11:51pm
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Seawolf wrote on Oct 17th, 2017 at 8:10pm:
And?  You do not get to heaven based on your religion, but I have told you this over and over and you ignore it so...


That is not what the bible says, not at all.  You sure you're a Christian?


John 14:6, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

That does not indicate that one must merely live a "good" life.  How can you spin this message to incorporate the millions of people that will never hear his word or read the bible?

In mainstream Christianity, knowing and accepting Jesus is the only way to heaven, period the end.  So your God engineered the isolation of millions of people around the world that would never get to hear the good word condemning them to eternal fire and torment.  He is either impotent or evil.

You are worshipping a devil brother.  I'd like to save you.   Cry
  

"I'm a tranvestwhite and ask that you please use my preferred racial pronoun, "human."  -The Captain
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Re: extreme unction
Reply #44 - Oct 18th, 2017 at 1:29am
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Capt. Lola B.S.C. wrote on Oct 17th, 2017 at 11:51pm:
That is not what the bible says, not at all.  You sure you're a Christian?


John 14:6, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

That does not indicate that one must merely live a "good" life.  How can you spin this message to incorporate the millions of people that will never hear his word or read the bible?

In mainstream Christianity, knowing and accepting Jesus is the only way to heaven, period the end.  So your God engineered the isolation of millions of people around the world that would never get to hear the good word condemning them to eternal fire and torment.  He is either impotent or evil.

You are worshipping a devil brother.  I'd like to save you.   Cry


The reality is of course simpler. The people who concocted these lines never thought about these consequences, leaving the field wide open for "interpretation" and/or "extrapolation".
  

Non sequitur:

The Wet Dreams of Mr Cousteau wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
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Seawolf
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Re: extreme unction
Reply #45 - Oct 18th, 2017 at 6:41am
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Capt. Lola B.S.C. wrote on Oct 17th, 2017 at 11:51pm:
That is not what the bible says, not at all.  You sure you're a Christian?


John 14:6, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

That does not indicate that one must merely live a "good" life.  How can you spin this message to incorporate the millions of people that will never hear his word or read the bible?

In mainstream Christianity, knowing and accepting Jesus is the only way to heaven, period the end.  So your God engineered the isolation of millions of people around the world that would never get to hear the good word condemning them to eternal fire and torment.  He is either impotent or evil.

You are worshipping a devil brother.  I'd like to save you.   Cry



I think most Christians can tell the difference between honest questions and silly trolling.
Jesus commands Christians not to cast pearls before swine.  The meaning being don't persist in sharing the Gospel with those that simply want to blaspheme and ridicule it.
I realize Christ's command here sounds harsh but part of the reason is for mercy's sake. It would just be helping the unbeliever incur more judgment upon himself and would not be doing such person any favors.

Fair-Minded Know It All

Not really worth wallowing with someone who willfully blasphemes the Lord,
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: extreme unction
Reply #46 - Oct 18th, 2017 at 10:09am
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Seawolf wrote on Oct 18th, 2017 at 6:41am:
I think most Christians can tell the difference between honest questions and silly trolling.
Jesus commands Christians not to cast pearls before swine.  The meaning being don't persist in sharing the Gospel with those that simply want to blaspheme and ridicule it.
I realize Christ's command here sounds harsh but part of the reason is for mercy's sake. It would just be helping the unbeliever incur more judgment upon himself and would not be doing such person any favors.

Fair-Minded Know It All

Not really worth wallowing with someone who willfully blasphemes the Lord,



It's amazing how someone who purports to detest personal insults taking the place of debate, you resort constantly to the former and almost never to the latter. You are the epitome of what you pretend to hate.

If that's the kind of person that religion has turned you into then don't be surprised if people are not too eager to follow in your footsteps.
  

Non sequitur:

The Wet Dreams of Mr Cousteau wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
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Seawolf
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Re: extreme unction
Reply #47 - Oct 18th, 2017 at 10:43am
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BowHunter wrote on Oct 18th, 2017 at 10:09am:
It's amazing how someone who purports to detest personal insults taking the place of debate, you resort constantly to the former and almost never to the latter. You are the epitome of what you pretend to hate.

If that's the kind of person that religion has turned you into then don't be surprised if people are not too eager to follow in your footsteps.

I agree with Fair-minded.  Why would I encourage God's wrath on you by engaging in your blasphemy of his name?  It is foolish for Christans to engage in such conversation.  You do not believe thus no further reason to have a dialogue about God or his son, Jesus Christ.  You have made up your mind.  You only want to engage in a discussion riddled with insults and mockery, do you entertain those type of people when you engage them face to face?  I highly doubt it.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: extreme unction
Reply #48 - Oct 18th, 2017 at 12:09pm
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Capt. Lola B.S.C. wrote on Oct 17th, 2017 at 2:33pm:
It makes sense to concoct yet another reason to keep people living in perpetual fear of death and the afterlife.  They needed a way to keep the church in complete control of your lives. From birth to grave. 

At birth, a priest MUST baptize the baby or it burns for eternity. At your death, you MUST have the priest rush to your home in hopes of administering these last rituals while the patient is still conscious, though there is a rule apparently that the priest can still give the rights even if he's late.  If he's a no show, you can do it yourself but I assume it's like weaker or amateur, so the loved one probably only gets some heaven, like on the weekends maybe.



I think the Catholic belief is that water baptism is necessary for salvation, so infant baptism is kind of like an "insurance policy" in case the kid dies before full confirmation into the faith.  The Catholic belief also is, I think, that sin must be confessed to a priest and atoned for via whatever means the priest commands in order to gain immediate entrance to heaven upon death.  Hence the last rites - to take care of those sins that have been committed since the last trip to the confession box.

I do not believe any of that is supported by the entirety of scripture.  One can, of course, lift things out of context to support almost anything one wishes to support.  Catholic teachings are as much (if not more) about elevating the status of clergy as they are about saving souls. 

I do not know, as Bow has asserted, if 75% of those claiming to be Christian are Catholic or not.  I do sincerely believe that more than half of those claiming to be  Christian, Catholic or otherwise, probably are not because of their works.  While works do not save, they do tell an awful lot about a person's character.  And according to the Book, one's character undergoes a permanent change upon one's conversion to Christianity.  Doesn't mean one becomes perfect, but one does become a "new person" in the sense that prior to conversion one's spirit (not soul, but spirit) was dead.  Upon conversion, it is made alive.  And if that does not show up in one's behavior at least a little bit, one should be doubtful it even occurred.

I have been a fairly regular church member since my mid 20's, prior to which I attended not at all.  There are times, lots of them, when I question why God does the things He does or allows the things to happen that He allows.  But I do not question my relationship to Him, and have not since my mid 20's.  There is an awful lot I do not know (and frankly believe cannot be known) about Him as long as we're on this side of the topsoil.  But I do know this: merely going through rituals or "sacraments" does nothing to convey grace.
  

non sumus stulti
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Re: extreme unction
Reply #49 - Oct 18th, 2017 at 1:13pm
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Grace is what God gives us, not because we deserve it, but because he loves us despite our sins.  No one can earn heaven, we obtain because God grants it through his son Jesus Christ.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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