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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Score one for religious freedom! (Read 631 times)
wyattstorch2004
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Re: Score one for religious freedom!
Reply #30 - Oct 8th, 2017 at 5:15pm
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Wadsworth wrote on Oct 8th, 2017 at 4:09pm:
Grin your logic is ridiculous in that unless you are real stupid, you would know that carrots, spinach and bottled water is not included in health insurance plans.


But why aren't carrots, spinach and bottled water included in health plans!?!?!  Why are these employers all dictating our choices!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!  HOW DARE THEY!!!!

^^^^Does that ridiculousness adequately assist you in seeing the error of your logic?

Simply choosing not to include something in their benefits offer is not remotely close to "dictating" anyone's choice.
  
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Wadsworth
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Re: Score one for religious freedom!
Reply #31 - Oct 8th, 2017 at 6:13pm
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wyattstorch2004 wrote on Oct 8th, 2017 at 5:15pm:
But why aren't carrots, spinach and bottled water included in health plans!?!?!  Why are these employers all dictating our choices!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!  HOW DARE THEY!!!!

^^^^Does that ridiculousness adequately assist you in seeing the error of your logic?

Simply choosing not to include something in their benefits offer is not remotely close to "dictating" anyone's choice.

And what in the hell does that have to do with the topic at hand.  Stay focused.
  

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Wadsworth
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Re: Score one for religious freedom!
Reply #32 - Oct 8th, 2017 at 6:15pm
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TowardLiberty wrote on Oct 8th, 2017 at 4:48pm:
Like I said. 10 feet over your head.

If you were consistent you would have to say you were deprived of everything not covered in your health care plan.

Of course a little logic and consistency is way too much to ask for.

Grin Sad
  

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wyattstorch2004
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Re: Score one for religious freedom!
Reply #33 - Oct 8th, 2017 at 6:18pm
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Wadsworth wrote on Oct 8th, 2017 at 6:13pm:
And what in the hell does that have to do with the topic at hand.  Stay focused.


It is directly tied to the topic in that it is related to the idea of employers excluding birth control from their insurance benefits.  I think it is pretty obvious.

Is it, or is it not, your position that employers who decline to include birth control in their insurance coverage are dictating the choices of their employees?
  
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Wadsworth
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Re: Score one for religious freedom!
Reply #34 - Oct 8th, 2017 at 6:21pm
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wyattstorch2004 wrote on Oct 8th, 2017 at 6:18pm:
It is directly tied to the topic in that it is related to the idea of employers excluding birth control from their insurance benefits.  I think it is pretty obvious.

Is it, or is it not, your position that employers who decline to include birth control in their insurance coverage are dictating the choices of their employees?

Yes, they are depriving someone of a benefit that they will get elsewhere, if employed by another company simply because their personal belief is that sex should be solely for the purpose of procreation.
  

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Re: Score one for religious freedom!
Reply #35 - Oct 8th, 2017 at 6:38pm
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Wadsworth wrote on Oct 8th, 2017 at 6:21pm:
Yes, they are depriving someone of a benefit that they will get elsewhere, if employed by another company simply because their personal belief is that sex should be solely for the purpose of procreation.


But if they retain the option to not accept the job, how is that "dictating"?

If an atheist employer decided not to offer a paid day off for Christmas like many other employers do, would that be "a personal choice that should not be dictated by someone else's belief"?

I fail to see the "dictating" in that example.  I also fail to see how providing birth control in an insurance policy (or a paid day off for Christmas) is a "personal choice" on the part of the recipient and a choice that somehow should not involve the person or organization that is actually providing the benefit.

Would you mind further supporting your understanding?
  
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Re: Score one for religious freedom!
Reply #36 - Oct 8th, 2017 at 7:09pm
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Is there a small but measurable decrease in the cost of the insurance if these benefits are removed,  and if so, does the employer share the gain with the employees?
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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Wadsworth
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Re: Score one for religious freedom!
Reply #37 - Oct 8th, 2017 at 7:09pm
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wyattstorch2004 wrote on Oct 8th, 2017 at 6:38pm:
But if they retain the option to not accept the job, how is that "dictating"?

If an atheist employer decided not to offer a paid day off for Christmas like many other employers do, would that be "a personal choice that should not be dictated by someone else's belief"?

I fail to see the "dictating" in that example.  I also fail to see how providing birth control in an insurance policy (or a paid day off for Christmas) is a "personal choice" on the part of the recipient and a choice that somehow should not involve the person or organization that is actually providing the benefit.

Would you mind further supporting your understanding?

That is a much better comparison than food and water.  If a person who is employed views Christmas as a religious holiday, it can be discrimination if you don’t allow your employees to celebrate religious holidays.
  

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wyattstorch2004
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Re: Score one for religious freedom!
Reply #38 - Oct 8th, 2017 at 7:25pm
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Limey wrote on Oct 8th, 2017 at 7:09pm:
Is there a small but measurable decrease in the cost of the insurance if these benefits are removed,  and if so, does the employer share the gain with the employees?


Probably to the first question, and probably not to the second.

Wadsworth wrote on Oct 8th, 2017 at 7:09pm:
That is a much better comparison than food and water.  If a person who is employed views Christmas as a religious holiday, it can be discrimination if you don’t allow your employees to celebrate religious holidays.


The hypothetical was not about being allowed to celebrate a holiday.  It was about having a paid day off.
  
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Re: Score one for religious freedom!
Reply #39 - Oct 8th, 2017 at 7:33pm
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Wadsworth wrote on Oct 8th, 2017 at 6:15pm:
Grin Sad

I know. The deficiency of reason on the part of yourself is truly sad.

You must be walked through arguments and even then you do not get it.
  

"Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist." J M Keynes

"In the first place, the dichotomy between "theoretical" and "practical" is a false one. In economics, all arguments are theoretical. And, since economics discusses the real world, these theoretical arguments are by their nature "practical" ones as well." M Rothbard
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