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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Blacks, Crime, and the Bended Knee (Read 1,960 times)
Wadsworth
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Re: Blacks, Crime, and the Bended Knee
Reply #60 - Oct 11th, 2017 at 2:23pm
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TowardLiberty wrote on Oct 11th, 2017 at 11:26am:
What you have not done is answer the question as to what I believe that is not realistic.

Post all the proof you want. Let's see what you have.

I am 100% sure you will have nothing to say, like always.

TowardLiberty wrote on Oct 8th, 2017 at 9:02pm:
Adam Smith was a proponent of laissez faire, as you will see in the following quotes.

"Little else is requisite to carry a state to the highest degree of opulence from the lowest barbarism, but peace, easy taxes, and a tolerable administration of justice; all the rest being brought about by the natural course of things. All governments which thwart this natural course, which force things into another channel, or which endeavour to arrest the progress of society at a particular point, are unnatural, and to support themselves are obliged to be oppressive and tyrannical."

"The real and effectual discipline which is exercised over a workman is that of his customers. It is the fear of losing their employment which restrains his frauds and corrects his negligence."

On the invisible hand of the market order:

"… by directing that industry in such a manner as its produce may be of the greatest value, he intends only his own gain, and he is in this, as in many other cases, led by an invisible hand to promote an end which was no part of his intention."

And on the liberal program of free trade:

"Were all nations to follow the liberal system of free exportation and free importation, the different states into which a great continent was divided would so far resemble the different provinces of a great empire. As among the different provinces of a great empire the freedom of the inland trade appears, both from reason and experience, not only the best palliative of a dearth, but the most effectual preventative of a famine; so would the freedom of the exportation and importation trade be among the different states into which a great continent was divided."

Now for John Locke on liberty and property:

"The state of nature has a law of nature to govern it, which obliges every one: and reason, which is that law, teaches all mankind, who will but consult it, that being all equal and independent, no one ought to harm another in his life, health, liberty, or possessions… (and) when his own preservation comes not in competition, ought he, as much as he can, to preserve the rest of mankind, and may not, unless it be to do justice on an offender, take away, or impair the life, or what tends to the preservation of the life, the liberty, health, limb, or goods of another."

On religious liberty:

"Oh that our ecclesiastical orators, of every sect, would apply themselves, with all the strength of argument that they are able, to the confounding of men’s errours! But let them spare their persons. Let them not supply their want of reasons with the instruments of force, which belong to another jurisdiction, and do ill become a churchman’s hands. Let them not call in the magistrate’s authority to the aid of their eloquence, or learning; lest perhaps, whilst they pretend only love for the truth, this their intemperate zeal, breathing nothing but fire and sword, betray their ambition, and show that what they desire is temporal dominion."

John Stuart Mill on the sovereignty of the individual:

"The object of this Essay is to assert one very simple principle, as entitled to govern absolutely the dealings of society with the individual in the way of compulsion and control, whether the means used be physical force in the form of legal penalties, or the moral coercion of public opinion. That principle is, that the sole end for which mankind are warranted, individually or collectively, in interfering with the liberty of action of any of their number, is self-protection. That the only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. … In the part which merely concerns himself, his independence is, of right, absolute. Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign."

Bastiat sums up the spirit of liberalism nicely here:

"We may be distressed to see writers delight in stirring up all forms of evil passion. However, to hobble the press is also to hobble truth as well as lies. Let us, therefore, take care never to allow the freedom of the press to die.

It is distressing that man should be reduced to earning his bread by the sweat of his brow. It would be better for the state to feed everyone, but this is impossible. Let us at least have the freedom to work.

By associating with one another, men can gain greater advantage from their strength. However, the forms of association are infinite; which is best? Let us not run the risk that the state imposes the worst of these on us; let us seek the right one by trial and error, and demand the freedom of association.

A people has two ways of procuring something. The first is to make it; the second is to make something else and trade it. It is certainly better to have the option than not to have it. Let us therefore demand the freedom to trade.

I am throwing myself into public debate; I am trying to get through to the crowd to preach all the freedoms, the total of which make up liberty."


Wadsworth wrote on Oct 8th, 2017 at 10:40pm:
Let's start with Adam Smith who is well known for his publication Wealth of Nations.  He was Scottish in the 1700's.  During that time, liberalism was an economic and political doctrine associated with free trade and limited government.  During that time in Europe they raised revenue through importation tariffs, thus interfering in trade.  Liberals during that time was against that.  It was mainly about trade and tariffs.  Today, it appears that conservatives are the upholders of free markets.  During the 20th century, both conservatism and liberalism redefined themselves.  Today, libertarians have taken hold of Adam's free market theories more so than liberal or conservatives.  Now lets talk about the definition of liberals and what you call leftism as related to today, not 300 years ago.

Wadsworth wrote on Oct 8th, 2017 at 10:50pm:
OK, John Locke

Again, John Locke was a philosopher in the 1700's.  He was considered a Classical Liberal or as some call it an "old" liberal.  "Liberty and private property are intimately related" as compared to the new liberal's philosophy which is "property rights generated an unjust inequality of power that led to a less-than-equal liberty".  Again, we are 20th century liberals and follow the philosophy of today's liberalism, not that of a philosopher of 400 years ago.

Wadsworth wrote on Oct 8th, 2017 at 10:50pm:
OK, John Locke

Again, John Locke was a philosopher in the 1700's.  He was considered a Classical Liberal or as some call it an "old" liberal.  "Liberty and private property are intimately related" as compared to the new liberal's philosophy which is "property rights generated an unjust inequality of power that led to a less-than-equal liberty".  Again, we are 20th century liberals and follow the philosophy of today's liberalism, not that of a philosopher of 400 years ago.

  

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TowardLiberty
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Re: Blacks, Crime, and the Bended Knee
Reply #61 - Oct 11th, 2017 at 2:31pm
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Wadsworth wrote on Oct 11th, 2017 at 2:23pm:

All those words and you have not been able to point to a single thing which I believe that is unrealistic.

You're off topic. Adam Smith is not the topic. Locke is not the topic.

You are trying to answer one question and one question only: give a single example of something TL believes which is unrealistic.

Just a single example.

Come on. You can do it.

You're the teacher, after all.
  

"Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist." J M Keynes

"In the first place, the dichotomy between "theoretical" and "practical" is a false one. In economics, all arguments are theoretical. And, since economics discusses the real world, these theoretical arguments are by their nature "practical" ones as well." M Rothbard
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Wadsworth
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Re: Blacks, Crime, and the Bended Knee
Reply #62 - Oct 11th, 2017 at 2:39pm
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TowardLiberty wrote on Oct 11th, 2017 at 2:31pm:
All those words and you have not been able to point to a single thing which I believe that is unrealistic.

You're off topic. Adam Smith is not the topic. Locke is not the topic.

You are trying to answer one question and one question only: give a single example of something TL believes which is unrealistic.

Just a single example.

Come on. You can do it.

You're the teacher, after all.

It is unrealistic to believe that today's liberals are the same as those of 300 years ago.  Thought you were smart enough to get that.  Now show me where my opinions are dumb.  Something you have never given proof of, dumbass.
  

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Re: Blacks, Crime, and the Bended Knee
Reply #63 - Oct 11th, 2017 at 2:53pm
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Wadsworth wrote on Oct 11th, 2017 at 2:39pm:
It is unrealistic to believe that today's liberals are the same as those of 300 years ago. 


Straw man.

No one said that left liberals are the same as classical liberals.

The entire point has been to say that these people believe different things.

Classical liberals today do not agree with left liberals today.

Quote:
Thought you were smart enough to get that.  Now show me where my opinions are dumb.  Something you have never given proof of, dumbass.

No, I am not letting you off the hook that easy.

You routinely claim I live in an alternate universe. I have asked you to qualify this with an example dozens of times and you never have anything to point to.

You have nothing to point to now.

That needs to be noted.

For according to your own argument, if you make a claim you can't back up, you're a liar.

So you have basically called yourself a liar unless you can back up your claim.

I'll wait.
  

"Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist." J M Keynes

"In the first place, the dichotomy between "theoretical" and "practical" is a false one. In economics, all arguments are theoretical. And, since economics discusses the real world, these theoretical arguments are by their nature "practical" ones as well." M Rothbard
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Wadsworth
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Re: Blacks, Crime, and the Bended Knee
Reply #64 - Oct 11th, 2017 at 3:02pm
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TowardLiberty wrote on Oct 11th, 2017 at 2:53pm:
Straw man.

No one said that left liberals are the same as classical liberals.

The entire point has been to say that these people believe different things.

Classical liberals today do not agree with left liberals today.

No, I am not letting you off the hook that easy.

You routinely claim I live in an alternate universe. I have asked you to qualify this with an example dozens of times and you never have anything to point to.

You have nothing to point to now.

That needs to be noted.

For according to your own argument, if you make a claim you can't back up, you're a liar.

So you have basically called yourself a liar unless you can back up your claim.

I'll wait.

You said leftist were not the same as liberals.  You argument was that comparing leftist to classical liberals.  Stop lying.  Sad that you have to resort to lying because you cannot win an argument
  

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Re: Blacks, Crime, and the Bended Knee
Reply #65 - Oct 11th, 2017 at 3:10pm
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Wadsworth wrote on Oct 11th, 2017 at 3:02pm:
You said leftist were not the same as liberals.  You argument was that comparing leftist to classical liberals.  Stop lying.  Sad that you have to resort to lying because you cannot win an argument

Just as I thought. You have nothing to point to suggesting I believe anything that is unrealistic.

Therefore, by your own words, you are a liar.
  

"Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist." J M Keynes

"In the first place, the dichotomy between "theoretical" and "practical" is a false one. In economics, all arguments are theoretical. And, since economics discusses the real world, these theoretical arguments are by their nature "practical" ones as well." M Rothbard
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Re: Blacks, Crime, and the Bended Knee
Reply #66 - Oct 11th, 2017 at 3:13pm
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Oh and you are confused by the conversation, Wads.

The left vs liberal thing is over. That's done with.

We're on a new subject- your inability to back up your claim that I live in an alternative reality.
  

"Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist." J M Keynes

"In the first place, the dichotomy between "theoretical" and "practical" is a false one. In economics, all arguments are theoretical. And, since economics discusses the real world, these theoretical arguments are by their nature "practical" ones as well." M Rothbard
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Wadsworth
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Re: Blacks, Crime, and the Bended Knee
Reply #67 - Oct 11th, 2017 at 3:22pm
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TowardLiberty wrote on Oct 11th, 2017 at 3:13pm:
Oh and you are confused by the conversation, Wads.

The left vs liberal thing is over. That's done with.

We're on a new subject- your inability to back up your claim that I live in an alternative reality.

You are a Fu#king idiot.  I am through with you.  You lost and I won.  Yes it is OVER
  

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Re: Blacks, Crime, and the Bended Knee
Reply #68 - Oct 11th, 2017 at 3:28pm
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Wadsworth wrote on Oct 11th, 2017 at 3:22pm:
You are a Fu#king idiot.  I am through with you.  You lost and I won. 


Looks like someone can't debate without insults.

I would also note that you have been given many opportunities to give an example of something I believe which is unrealistic and you have offered nothing. No examples.

So by your own words, that makes you a liar.

Regarding your alleged "victory," I have to smile. If that's what "winning" looks like, I hope to never win another thing in my life.

  

"Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist." J M Keynes

"In the first place, the dichotomy between "theoretical" and "practical" is a false one. In economics, all arguments are theoretical. And, since economics discusses the real world, these theoretical arguments are by their nature "practical" ones as well." M Rothbard
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Re: Blacks, Crime, and the Bended Knee
Reply #69 - Oct 12th, 2017 at 3:58am
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TowardLiberty wrote on Oct 11th, 2017 at 2:31pm:
All those words and you have not been able to point to a single thing which I believe that is unrealistic.

You're off topic. Adam Smith is not the topic. Locke is not the topic.

You are trying to answer one question and one question only: give a single example of something TL believes which is unrealistic.


Just a single example.

Come on. You can do it.

You're the teacher, after all.



What sports team do you support?




  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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