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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Dark Enlightenment (Read 581 times)
Nazi Hunter B.S.C.
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Re: The Dark Enlightenment
Reply #10 - Oct 9th, 2017 at 11:13am
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Frank1 wrote on Oct 9th, 2017 at 10:12am:
What?

I have been aware of the Dark Enlightenment for several years, almost since its beginning.

Mencius Moldbug, a blogger, is regarded by many as its founder.

Moldbug, first off, is an atheist.  His hierarchical vision of society is thus justified on social Darwinist grounds. 

So, not really a traditionalist, which is why the movement is called neo-reaction.

The lack of religious values at the heart of the dark enlightenment is a giant gaping chasm, filled with the evils of social Darwinism and scientism. 

This is not conservatism.

As to TL, his vision of Protestantism as leading to democracy is only partly true.  Luther was no democrat, and when the peasants rebelled in the wake of his teachings he urged the nobility to suppress them. 





Conservatism

NOUN
commitment to traditional values and ideas with opposition to change or innovation:
"proponents of theological conservatism"


You can not divorce the ideals of the Dark Enlightenment from conservatism, whatever the form.  That's not to say the average religious conservative, would necessarily agree with a DE'er, but they share enough in common that conservatives can feel rightly ashamed for being backwards thinking assholes.

The Dark Enlightenment is simply Reagan conservatives stripped of any moral grounding, the bible. 

Here we see why God made fists.  He clearly meant for us to punch the living shit out of Dark Enlightenment conservatives and I will head God's calling, for once in my life.

These turds would like to embrace atheism and the parts of science that confirm their perverted world view yet they'd trim out the part of the biology text book that disagrees with their idiocy. Hey!  Just like religious conservatives do with the bible!  Imagine that! Sorry, you either except science in it's entirety or you do not and it becomes a bastardization of reality. It becomes fake news.
  

"Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Hard Battle" Plato
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Cloistered Cyber Monk-Local47
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Re: The Dark Enlightenment
Reply #11 - Oct 9th, 2017 at 12:33pm
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Nazi Hunter B.S.C. wrote on Oct 9th, 2017 at 11:13am:
The Dark Enlightenment is simply Reagan conservatives stripped of any moral grounding, the bible. 



"religion" is in no way the basis for morality.   Humans invented religion so as to codify morality.

Just say'n.

  

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Frank1
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Re: The Dark Enlightenment
Reply #12 - Oct 9th, 2017 at 4:11pm
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Nazi Hunter B.S.C. wrote on Oct 9th, 2017 at 11:13am:
Conservatism

NOUN
commitment to traditional values and ideas with opposition to change or innovation:
"proponents of theological conservatism"


You can not divorce the ideals of the Dark Enlightenment from conservatism, whatever the form.  That's not to say the average religious conservative, would necessarily agree with a DE'er, but they share enough in common that conservatives can feel rightly ashamed for being backwards thinking assholes.

The Dark Enlightenment is simply Reagan conservatives stripped of any moral grounding, the bible. 

Here we see why God made fists.  He clearly meant for us to punch the living shit out of Dark Enlightenment conservatives and I will head God's calling, for once in my life.

These turds would like to embrace atheism and the parts of science that confirm their perverted world view yet they'd trim out the part of the biology text book that disagrees with their idiocy. Hey!  Just like religious conservatives do with the bible!  Imagine that! Sorry, you either except science in it's entirety or you do not and it becomes a bastardization of reality. It becomes fake news.



Actually, you can completely divorce the Dark Enlightenment from traditional conservatism.

The Dark Enlightenment or "neo-reaction" and leftism are two sides of the same coin.  They share a rejection of religion and  both pervert science to their purposes.

Traditional conservatism is an altogether different beast.


  


To say homo sapiens, is to say Homo religiosus; there is no man without God. ~Frithjof Schuon
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Re: The Dark Enlightenment
Reply #13 - Oct 9th, 2017 at 4:16pm
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In a sense, one could almost see the Dark Enlightenment folks as the Nazi's and modern leftist radicals as the communists.

Its like we are in Weimar Germany, as some have said.


  


To say homo sapiens, is to say Homo religiosus; there is no man without God. ~Frithjof Schuon
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TowardLiberty
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Re: The Dark Enlightenment
Reply #14 - Oct 9th, 2017 at 5:32pm
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Limey wrote on Oct 8th, 2017 at 6:14pm:
Nationalist: I don't want some bloody Frog telling me what to do.

Sovereignty worrier: it's important that the British parliament is supreme.

That's the simple difference.  It's complicated by the way some Brexiteers push the argument,  by saying (dogwhistle politics warning):

Sovereignty worrier: it's important that the British parliament is supreme. Because we don't want some bloody Frog telling us what to do.

The nuanced difference is that sovereignty, or rather authority,  can, under our constitution (yes we do have one, and it's better than yours  Angry) be vested anywhere by Parliament.

This is difficult,  and at the heart of the second difference between nationalist and sovereignty worries.

Our parliament can do anything it likes, except bind its successors. So, in entering the EC/EU, no possibility of irrevocability was or could be there. Thus, any delegation of authority to the EU is delivered by our sovereign parliament,  and is not-can't be- a loss of sovereignty. Those who are so exercised by the EU'S rule making, sadly,  often miss this point.

EU rules are certainly not all welcome everywhere in Europe,  but they are simply common standards in a common project.  The project is,  at base, in this order,  to make the people of Europe more secure,  more prosperous and more free. To those who misunderstand the nature of our relationship with the EU,  the project feels like a remorseless takeover.

To the nationalist tendency,  it feels like we won the war but the bloody Germans are bossing us.

It's tragic.

Well alright. Well answered.

Now I get a better feel for where you are coming from regarding Brexit. If the agreement with the EU is truly not binding on future parliaments, and if it grants access to one of the largest common markets in the world, leaving for nationalist reasons is truly the road to ruin.

The funny thing is the common narrative in the libertarian space is to support Brexit because it is sold as something akin to secession and libertarians love decentralizing movements. But in this case, I would say that argument misses the economic and political reality of what is happening.

That said the UK kept it's monetary sovereignty. I imagine without it there would be some legitimate sovereignty concerns.
  

"Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist." J M Keynes

"In the first place, the dichotomy between "theoretical" and "practical" is a false one. In economics, all arguments are theoretical. And, since economics discusses the real world, these theoretical arguments are by their nature "practical" ones as well." M Rothbard
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Nazi Hunter B.S.C.
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Re: The Dark Enlightenment
Reply #15 - Oct 9th, 2017 at 5:47pm
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Cloistered Cyber Monk-Local47 wrote on Oct 9th, 2017 at 12:33pm:
"religion" is in no way the basis for morality.   Humans invented religion so as to codify morality.

Just say'n.



Nonsense!  There's only two things a Christian needs fret themselves over. 1.) God exists and 2.) He spoke to us through the Bible.  Anything beyond that is not Christianity. If mans law, happens to coincide with the laws of God, then it's a happy coincidence I suppose.  All laws not based on the bible are of course abhorrent.  I'll leave it to you to decide which is which.  I have no flippin' idea my self.

Ya ya, I know, God doesn't exist, but that's the kicker.  Once conservativism jumped the shark and married itself with atheism, devoid of that glorious law from on high, we end up with Nazi fascism. 

Nationalism, pseudoscience, and pussy grabbin' rapists become the new norm.  I mean hell, if Trump can achieve such heights of success merely by being a misogynist and rapist, maybe it'll work for us too!  At the very least, you shouldn't scold your little boys for pulling a little girls hair, even if she asks him to stop or expresses disgust.  Trump says that they actually want it and to just keep going until they admit it or something.

Trump IS the neo rights God, after all, he managed to somehow grab the pussy of victory from the multicultural jaws of defeat.  Make no mistake, there will be fighting, more violence, more wars.  More rape, more injustice, more inequality.  Indeed, the exact morality we've discovered through social science is burned along with the bible.

Just tell your kids to keep grabbing and battering women, the president does it and he's badass.

You actually did it this time conservatives, you voted for the antichrist and God isn't going to like it.   Undecided
  

"Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Hard Battle" Plato
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Nazi Hunter B.S.C.
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Re: The Dark Enlightenment
Reply #16 - Oct 9th, 2017 at 6:07pm
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Frank1 wrote on Oct 9th, 2017 at 4:11pm:
Actually, you can completely divorce the Dark Enlightenment from traditional conservatism.

The Dark Enlightenment or "neo-reaction" and leftism are two sides of the same coin.  They share a rejection of religion and  both pervert science to their purposes.

Traditional conservatism is an altogether different beast.




No no, traditional conservatives married and impregnated fascist nationalism and popped out a Darkly Enlightened Trump. Dark Enlightenment is barely even code for mean ideas. But hell, says these neocrappity smacks, if "dark" and mean shit can prevent an African American looking man or God forbid, a woman, from holding office, than sign me up!

It was bound to happen someday and it was predictable.  When the basket of deplorables get voting, deplorable men become their god.   

Trump represents the lowest common denominator among us.  He is the lowest common denominator except for his vast wealth. 

Tell me, in your wildest dreams, did you ever envision that a rapist would be elected to office and then even celebrated for his raping and battering of women?

  

"Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Hard Battle" Plato
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Re: The Dark Enlightenment
Reply #17 - Oct 9th, 2017 at 6:40pm
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Nazi Hunter B.S.C. wrote on Oct 9th, 2017 at 6:07pm:
No no, traditional conservatives married and impregnated fascist nationalism and popped out a Darkly Enlightened Trump. Dark Enlightenment is barely even code for mean ideas. But hell, says these neocrappity smacks, if "dark" and mean shit can prevent an African American looking man or God forbid, a woman, from holding office, than sign me up!

It was bound to happen someday and it was predictable.  When the basket of deplorables get voting, deplorable men become their god.   

Trump represents the lowest common denominator among us.  He is the lowest common denominator except for his vast wealth. 

Tell me, in your wildest dreams, did you ever envision that a rapist would be elected to office and then even celebrated for his raping and battering of women?



There are not many trad-cons left. 

Anyways though, Trump may be playing with these people and using them, but he did not create them.

The craziness of the left created them.  Just how long do you think the left could go on with its insanity, questioning every single traditional value, labeling all critics racist, condemning Western civilization in all its aspects?

How long did you think this could go on before a reaction would set in?

One extreme creates the other.
  


To say homo sapiens, is to say Homo religiosus; there is no man without God. ~Frithjof Schuon
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Limey
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Re: The Dark Enlightenment
Reply #18 - Oct 9th, 2017 at 6:49pm
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TowardLiberty wrote on Oct 9th, 2017 at 5:32pm:
Well alright. Well answered.

Now I get a better feel for where you are coming from regarding Brexit. If the agreement with the EU is truly not binding on future parliaments, and if it grants access to one of the largest common markets in the world, leaving for nationalist reasons is truly the road to ruin.

The funny thing is the common narrative in the libertarian space is to support Brexit because it is sold as something akin to secession and libertarians love decentralizing movements. But in this case, I would say that argument misses the economic and political reality of what is happening.

That said the UK kept it's monetary sovereignty. I imagine without it there would be some legitimate sovereignty concerns.


Thanks.

I suspect that libertarians applause for brexit is mainly from those missing the point.

Nationalism applauds it regardless.
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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Re: The Dark Enlightenment
Reply #19 - Oct 9th, 2017 at 6:54pm
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Limey wrote on Oct 9th, 2017 at 6:49pm:
Thanks.

I suspect that libertarians applause for brexit is mainly from those missing the point.

Nationalism applauds it regardless.

There is tendency for fringe conspiracy viewpoints in the libertarian orbit. The EU is often talked about as some weigh station or half step to a global government.

What do you think about that idea?
« Last Edit: Oct 9th, 2017 at 7:28pm by TowardLiberty »  

"Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist." J M Keynes

"In the first place, the dichotomy between "theoretical" and "practical" is a false one. In economics, all arguments are theoretical. And, since economics discusses the real world, these theoretical arguments are by their nature "practical" ones as well." M Rothbard
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