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Limey
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Re: The Dark Enlightenment
Reply #20 - Oct 9th, 2017 at 7:27pm
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Frank1 wrote on Oct 9th, 2017 at 4:16pm:
In a sense, one could almost see the Dark Enlightenment folks as the Nazi's and modern leftist radicals as the communists.

Its like we are in Weimar Germany, as some have said.




I think you are half right.


The modern Nazis are as thier 30s prick predecessors.

Modern leftist groups don't want international communism.
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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Re: The Dark Enlightenment
Reply #21 - Oct 9th, 2017 at 7:30pm
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Limey wrote on Oct 9th, 2017 at 7:27pm:
I think you are half right.


The modern Nazis are as thier 30s prick predecessors.

Modern leftist groups don't want international communism.


Well, the left is still utopian and wishes to achieve this utopia through a complete "revaluation of values," to quote Nietzsche (yes, I know N. was not a leftist).

Marx's statement that "religion is the opiate of the masses" in a way contains the essence of leftism.  The essence is that all traditional values simply hold people back from achieving some sort of earthly utopia.

The left has never altered from that fundamental position.
  


To say homo sapiens, is to say Homo religiosus; there is no man without God. ~Frithjof Schuon
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Re: The Dark Enlightenment
Reply #22 - Oct 9th, 2017 at 9:12pm
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Frank1 wrote on Oct 9th, 2017 at 10:12am:
What?

I have been aware of the Dark Enlightenment for several years, almost since its beginning.

Mencius Moldbug, a blogger, is regarded by many as its founder.

Moldbug, first off, is an atheist.  His hierarchical vision of society is thus justified on social Darwinist grounds. 

So, not really a traditionalist, which is why the movement is called neo-reaction.

The lack of religious values at the heart of the dark enlightenment is a giant gaping chasm, filled with the evils of social Darwinism and scientism. 

This is not conservatism.


I thought you may have heard of them as I knew you were a traditionalist.

Regarding their vision of hierarchy as being based on "science"  and without a role for tradition and God, that is a key difference, no doubt.

And it does help explain the neo prefix.

I have heard that Evola is a big influence on the dark enlightenment and I believe he was a traditionalist. I havent started combing through his work yet so I am speaking from ignorance here.

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As to TL, his vision of Protestantism as leading to democracy is only partly true.  Luther was no democrat, and when the peasants rebelled in the wake of his teachings he urged the nobility to suppress them. 

Yes, I am not claiming that Luther was a liberal but I do believe his movement lit a fuse in that direction.
  

"Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist." J M Keynes

"In the first place, the dichotomy between "theoretical" and "practical" is a false one. In economics, all arguments are theoretical. And, since economics discusses the real world, these theoretical arguments are by their nature "practical" ones as well." M Rothbard
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Re: The Dark Enlightenment
Reply #23 - Oct 9th, 2017 at 11:10pm
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Frank1 wrote on Oct 9th, 2017 at 6:40pm:
There are not many trad-cons left. 

Anyways though, Trump may be playing with these people and using them, but he did not create them.

The craziness of the left created them.  Just how long do you think the left could go on with its insanity, questioning every single traditional value, labeling all critics racist, condemning Western civilization in all its aspects?

How long did you think this could go on before a reaction would set in?

One extreme creates the other.


I suppose I never understood that reaction.  I don't listen to more than half the shit the TV or media or talkin heads put out there. so you'll have to forgive me for assuming that everyone else thinks they are full of shit too.  I've been called all sorts of things, from all directions, and it rolls off me.  I've got my own notion of reality and I don't need theirs.

So Trumps supporters have always existed, I agree, sort of a central point of my posts.  Trump IS America, he IS us.  He's all our more base desires given wings.  In short, he's perhaps the best example of humanity we've seen yet, no refinement at all.  He's ugly and says ugly things just like your next door neighbor.
  

"Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Hard Battle" Plato
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Re: The Dark Enlightenment
Reply #24 - Oct 10th, 2017 at 6:49am
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TowardLiberty wrote on Oct 9th, 2017 at 9:12pm:
I thought you may have heard of them as I knew you were a traditionalist.

Regarding their vision of hierarchy as being based on "science"  and without a role for tradition and God, that is a key difference, no doubt.

And it does help explain the neo prefix.

I have heard that Evola is a big influence on the dark enlightenment and I believe he was a traditionalist. I havent started combing through his work yet so I am speaking from ignorance here.

Yes, I am not claiming that Luther was a liberal but I do believe his movement lit a fuse in that direction.



Evola was in some ways a traditionalist, but he was also rabidly racist, mostly against black Africans.
  


To say homo sapiens, is to say Homo religiosus; there is no man without God. ~Frithjof Schuon
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Re: The Dark Enlightenment
Reply #25 - Oct 10th, 2017 at 12:16pm
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I thought from the title that this was going to be a discussion of inner city public education.
  
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Re: The Dark Enlightenment
Reply #26 - Oct 10th, 2017 at 2:54pm
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20TRUMP20 wrote on Oct 10th, 2017 at 12:16pm:
I thought from the title that this was going to be a discussion of inner city public education.


All this time it was about you.
  

"Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Hard Battle" Plato
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Re: The Dark Enlightenment
Reply #27 - Oct 12th, 2017 at 5:26pm
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Great read this thread.

IMO, the "dark enlightenment" is just another label for what's always been there, a racist strain of conservatism. They used to cite scripture to justify their superiority and now they've found "science" instead. It's an age old demographic that feels empowered right now.
  

For too long have we sat under the thumb of mankind! The time has come to *oppose* that thumb!

A nothing burger!
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Re: The Dark Enlightenment
Reply #28 - Oct 12th, 2017 at 5:34pm
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Mojo-Jojo wrote on Oct 12th, 2017 at 5:26pm:
Great read this thread.

IMO, the "dark enlightenment" is just another label for what's always been there, a racist strain of conservatism. They used to cite scripture to justify their superiority and now they've found "science" instead. It's an age old demographic that feels empowered right now.


Well, racism really took off with the rise of Darwinism.

Its not that other excuses were never used, but the most virulent racism was always social Darwinist in character.

As I said, Mencius Moldbug, considered by many to be the pre-eminent "thinker" behind the Dark Enlightenment is very much a rationalist and an atheist, with no time for religion.
« Last Edit: Oct 13th, 2017 at 9:28am by Frank1 »  


To say homo sapiens, is to say Homo religiosus; there is no man without God. ~Frithjof Schuon
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