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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) NRA Gun Nuts... Laughing Stock of the World (Read 2,987 times)
Archie
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Re: NRA Gun Nuts... Laughing Stock of the World
Reply #50 - Oct 11th, 2017 at 4:26pm
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BowHunter wrote on Oct 11th, 2017 at 3:40pm:
It's two words engraved in a slab of stone. You don't believe evidence millions of times more detailed and extensive when it comes to actual sciences. A vague allusion in the bible to you is the equivalent of a thesis. You're completely delusional.



Did Jesus Exist? Searching for Evidence Beyond the …
https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/.../did-jesus-exist

Did Jesus of Nazareth, “the man Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5), really exist? What’s the evidence outside of the Bible? Classical and Jewish writings from the ...
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Archie
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Re: NRA Gun Nuts... Laughing Stock of the World
Reply #51 - Oct 11th, 2017 at 4:29pm
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Yeah, he existed, and he still does today.

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Limey
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Re: NRA Gun Nuts... Laughing Stock of the World
Reply #52 - Oct 11th, 2017 at 5:43pm
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Hardly anyone claims that Jesus is fictional.

Only an idiot claims that statements in the Bible are somehow independent, verifiable  evidence of His divinity.
  

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Re: NRA Gun Nuts... Laughing Stock of the World
Reply #53 - Oct 11th, 2017 at 6:27pm
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Archie wrote on Oct 11th, 2017 at 4:29pm:
Yeah, he existed, and he still does today.

Smiley

Yes he did exist! No he's not around today. That guy was tried, found guilty and put to death a long time ago for being a fraud.
  

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Re: NRA Gun Nuts... Laughing Stock of the World
Reply #54 - Oct 11th, 2017 at 6:35pm
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Limey wrote on Oct 11th, 2017 at 5:43pm:
Only an idiot claims that statements in the Bible are somehow independent, verifiable  evidence of His divinity.


A little bit of an exaggeration.  Countless people far more learned than you, over centuries, have believed the evidence of the New Testament proves Jesus's divinity.

Your theory that they were all idiots does not hold water. 

Come up with something better.   Wink
  


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Limey
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Re: NRA Gun Nuts... Laughing Stock of the World
Reply #55 - Oct 11th, 2017 at 6:41pm
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Frank1 wrote on Oct 11th, 2017 at 6:35pm:
A little bit of an exaggeration.  Countless people far more learned than you, over centuries, have believed the evidence of the New Testament proves Jesus's divinity.

Your theory that they were all idiots does not hold water. 

Come up with something better.   Wink


I stand by it.

Only a fool will rely on an argument with its basis in assertion.



  

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Re: NRA Gun Nuts... Laughing Stock of the World
Reply #56 - Oct 11th, 2017 at 6:57pm
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Limey wrote on Oct 11th, 2017 at 6:41pm:
I stand by it.

Only a fool will rely on an argument with its basis in assertion.





Um...the Bible provides evidence of what Jesus did.  You can choose not to believe it, and you obviously do.

You disbelieve it probably for two reasons extremely common to our time:

1.  You see pre-modern people as ignorant and superstitious.

2.  You do not believe in events that violate the everyday laws of physics and, related to number one, if such events were reported in the past you see the reports as lies, or as products of the ignorance or superstition of the reporters.

That the reporters might not be liars, that they might not be ignorant and superstitious, but that they might have reported what they or others really saw...well, you don't really allow for that.*

At any rate, your assertion that people who believe the Bible proves Jesus's divinity are idiots still does not hold water.


*It might be worth noting that many or most of Jesus's miracles were presaged by various individuals in the Old Testament who did similar things but in smaller numbers.  Elijah and Elisha both are responsible for miracles that presage Jesus's, I believe.
« Last Edit: Oct 11th, 2017 at 7:05pm by Frank1 »  


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Limey
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Re: NRA Gun Nuts... Laughing Stock of the World
Reply #57 - Oct 11th, 2017 at 8:11pm
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Frank1 wrote on Oct 11th, 2017 at 6:57pm:
Um...the Bible provides evidence of what Jesus did.  You can choose not to believe it, and you obviously do.


Actually,  no, it doesn't.


Not "evidence" in any meaningful sense.

Certainly not evidence of miraculous events, any more than the Koran provides such evidence,  or Harry Potter (although to be fair,  the more august works do at least deal with some real people)

Quote:
You disbelieve it probably for two reasons extremely common to our time:

1.  You see pre-modern people as ignorant and superstitious.


Well, in fact on many topics, yes, people of earlier times were more ignorant than we are today.  As we today, I very much hope,  will appear relatively ignorant to our great grandlings.

Superstitious?  Hell yeah, but no more so than now. Look at your posts,  or Seawolf's. Quote:
2.  You do not believe in events that violate the everyday laws of physics and, related to number one, if such events were reported in the past you see the reports as lies, or as products of the ignorance or superstition of the reporters.



Affirmative.

Quote:
That the reporters might not be liars, that they might not be ignorant and superstitious, but that they might have reported what they or others really saw...well, you don't really allow for that.*


Affirmative.  If it's impossible now, it was impossible then.

Quote:
At any rate, your assertion that people who believe the Bible proves Jesus's divinity are idiots still does not hold water.


OK,  I will modify it slightly , some very clever people deliberately suspend certain intellectual functions when it comes to examination of religious matters.

Quote:
*It might be worth noting that many or most of Jesus's miracles were presaged by various individuals in the Old Testament who did similar things but in smaller numbers.  Elijah and Elisha both are responsible for miracles that presage Jesus's, I believe.


...this is, again, relying on assertion as evidence.



  

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Seawolf
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Re: NRA Gun Nuts... Laughing Stock of the World
Reply #58 - Oct 11th, 2017 at 9:12pm
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Limey wrote on Oct 11th, 2017 at 5:43pm:
Hardly anyone claims that Jesus is fictional.

Only an idiot claims that statements in the Bible are somehow independent, verifiable  evidence of His divinity.

Eyewitness accounts of that event written in the Bible and you now are qualified to determine that these accounts of 2000 years are not valid.  Based on what authority Limey?  You were not there, I was not there, all we have are several people who wrote letters testifying to this event.  In fact, 11 men were horribly killed for refusing to refute their claim, they went to their deaths with this story.  Yet you claim that they lied and can not provide any evidence to support this.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: NRA Gun Nuts... Laughing Stock of the World
Reply #59 - Oct 11th, 2017 at 9:17pm
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BowHunter wrote on Oct 11th, 2017 at 3:40pm:
It's two words engraved in a slab of stone. You don't believe evidence millions of times more detailed and extensive when it comes to actual sciences. A vague allusion in the bible to you is the equivalent of a thesis. You're completely delusional.

Are you a qualified archeologist who has already examined this and certified it?  Other wise it is your usually foolish emotional response.  Dismissal is not a factual rebuttal of evidence. 
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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