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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Genesis 3:5 ...Shall Be As gods... (Read 653 times)
BowHunter
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Re: Genesis 3:5 ...Shall Be As gods...
Reply #10 - Nov 17th, 2017 at 12:38am
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Seawolf wrote on Nov 16th, 2017 at 9:52pm:
The Bible is meant to be read literally.  To state that the earth could not have been flooded is stating that God would be incapable of flooding the earth, thus he could not be God.  Tell me how it is impossible for God to create the heavens and the earth in 7 days, how are we capable of saying this is not possible.  Of course it is your opinion, my opinion regarding your view of life spawning out of nothing in direct opposition of biogenesis.  Or to state that explosions can create life in opposition to the Second law of thermodynamics.  What evolutionist claim regarding the birth of time, space and matter do not align with thermodynamics or biogenesis.  So for me, a Creator is more plausible then life that comes out of nothing through a constant series of accidents, yet has never been actually seen or witnessed.  It is purely speculative.



God is purely speculative and completely unproven, IE a being that can do anything, anytime regardless of elementary logic. The flood is impossible because the Earth is spherical and the excess water would have to come from somewhere and then go somewhere else. Your contention amount to stating that the water was created out of nothing and then destroyed afterward, like a magician pulling a rabbit out of a hat and making it disappear afterward.
  

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Re: Genesis 3:5 ...Shall Be As gods...
Reply #11 - Nov 17th, 2017 at 9:04am
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Seawolf wrote on Nov 16th, 2017 at 9:52pm:
The Bible is meant to be read literally.  To state that the earth could not have been flooded is stating that God would be incapable of flooding the earth, thus he could not be God.  Tell me how it is impossible for God to create the heavens and the earth in 7 days, how are we capable of saying this is not possible.  Of course it is your opinion, my opinion regarding your view of life spawning out of nothing in direct opposition of biogenesis.  Or to state that explosions can create life in opposition to the Second law of thermodynamics.  What evolutionist claim regarding the birth of time, space and matter do not align with thermodynamics or biogenesis.  So for me, a Creator is more plausible then life that comes out of nothing through a constant series of accidents, yet has never been actually seen or witnessed.  It is purely speculative.


If literal and every word true, how do you explain all the contradictions?

(I don't expect you to respond - it's what you always do when you can't make sense of the Word)
  

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Seawolf
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Re: Genesis 3:5 ...Shall Be As gods...
Reply #12 - Nov 19th, 2017 at 8:54am
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billy.pilgrim wrote on Nov 17th, 2017 at 9:04am:
If literal and every word true, how do you explain all the contradictions?

(I don't expect you to respond - it's what you always do when you can't make sense of the Word)

Have you read the Bible completely through?  I have actually addressed some of the alleged contradictions.  How about the overall context of scripture, man born into sin who has been redeemed by his God through his son Jesus Christ, what about the message?
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Genesis 3:5 ...Shall Be As gods...
Reply #13 - Nov 19th, 2017 at 8:58am
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BowHunter wrote on Nov 17th, 2017 at 12:38am:
God is purely speculative and completely unproven, IE a being that can do anything, anytime regardless of elementary logic. The flood is impossible because the Earth is spherical and the excess water would have to come from somewhere and then go somewhere else. Your contention amount to stating that the water was created out of nothing and then destroyed afterward, like a magician pulling a rabbit out of a hat and making it disappear afterward.

There is evidence of a great flood everywhere, IF you are willing to approach the subject open minded.  Whale bones in desert, sea fossils on the mountains, canyons that speak of a massive flood.  Where did the water come from?

Genesis 7, verse 11 gives us a picture of this cataclysmic event. The New American Standard version presents this verse as "the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the floodgates of the sky were opened."
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Genesis 3:5 ...Shall Be As gods...
Reply #14 - Nov 19th, 2017 at 10:38am
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Seawolf wrote on Nov 19th, 2017 at 8:58am:
There is evidence of a great flood everywhere, IF you are willing to approach the subject open minded.  Whale bones in desert, sea fossils on the mountains, canyons that speak of a massive flood.  Where did the water come from?

Genesis 7, verse 11 gives us a picture of this cataclysmic event. The New American Standard version presents this verse as "the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the floodgates of the sky were opened."


How did the giant South American cave sloth, aka Megatherium, survive?


And that's only one example among millions...
  

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Re: Genesis 3:5 ...Shall Be As gods...
Reply #15 - Nov 19th, 2017 at 12:57pm
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Seawolf wrote on Nov 16th, 2017 at 9:52pm:
The Bible is meant to be read literally.


I think that very much depends on the particular book. "The Bible" is not one book, but a collection of individual letters, word-of-mouth histories, documentations, etc. They were written by different authors in different styles for different audiences in different times for different purposes. Some are historical, some are prophecy, some are documentary, and some are poetry.

To say the metaphors of Daniel, Song of Solomon, Ezekiel and Revelation is meant to be taken every bit as literally as a physician's account of recorded interactions in Luke is to set oneself up for a lot of confusion and misunderstandings of reality.

The point of the Bible isn't to be presented as 100% fact in a straight-forward reading, but to point the reader towards understanding what the nature of God is and how we fit in with the world around us. In some cases, literal interpretation is appropriate. In others, metaphors are used, even by Jesus.

Man has the ability to reason and study and think and investigate. Those abilities should be used to pursue an understanding of God's character and desires, not abandoned as a tool of the devil to where we believe something just because that's what our parents believed. It's important to also understand why we believe what we do to build a solid foundation.
  

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Re: Genesis 3:5 ...Shall Be As gods...
Reply #16 - Nov 19th, 2017 at 5:34pm
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MJ wrote on Nov 19th, 2017 at 12:57pm:
I think that very much depends on the particular book. "The Bible" is not one book, but a collection of individual letters, word-of-mouth histories, documentations, etc. They were written by different authors in different styles for different audiences in different times for different purposes. Some are historical, some are prophecy, some are documentary, and some are poetry.

To say the metaphors of Daniel, Song of Solomon, Ezekiel and Revelation is meant to be taken every bit as literally as a physician's account of recorded interactions in Luke is to set oneself up for a lot of confusion and misunderstandings of reality.

The point of the Bible isn't to be presented as 100% fact in a straight-forward reading, but to point the reader towards understanding what the nature of God is and how we fit in with the world around us. In some cases, literal interpretation is appropriate. In others, metaphors are used, even by Jesus.

Man has the ability to reason and study and think and investigate. Those abilities should be used to pursue an understanding of God's character and desires, not abandoned as a tool of the devil to where we believe something just because that's what our parents believed. It's important to also understand why we believe what we do to build a solid foundation.

You have made some assumptions, ie, because our parents say so.  No where have I ever stated this, but you implied it so that is not a valid argument.  Yes, historically you should take it literally.  Word of mouth, yes but the Jews were methodical when they copied scriptures and you can personally see this yourself with a 1000 year old manuscript of the book of Isaiah from the Dead Sea scrolls.

  I do not believe we should ever westernize scripture but read it in context.  Yes, you can literally take from the book regarding David that God is with us through all things, that he is a merciful God for those who repent and turn from their sins.  There are lessons of God's character all throughout the Old Testament.  It was written to introduce man to his Creator.  It should be read 100% fact, if you do not believe so give examples.  If the Bible says Jesus is the way, the truth and the light and no man goes unto the father but through him.  How can I not take that as it was intended to be read, for example

  How about the Ten Commandments, should they not be read literally?  I could list endless examples just like two examples I have given.  He has laid out his entire history of our salvation, nothing in it should be doubted.  Genesis should be read literally, I can not see a reason why it should not or can not be read literally, do you?
« Last Edit: Nov 19th, 2017 at 5:51pm by Seawolf »  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Genesis 3:5 ...Shall Be As gods...
Reply #17 - Nov 19th, 2017 at 7:34pm
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Seawolf wrote on Nov 19th, 2017 at 5:34pm:
You have made some assumptions, ie, because our parents say so.  No where have I ever stated this, but you implied it so that is not a valid argument. 


I'm not referring to anything you said. I'm making a reference to the commonly-cited point that the majority of Christians were raised in church themselves, and that those beliefs are often passed down through generation. And that's fine, as long as they know why they believe it.

Quote:
Yes, historically you should take it literally.  Word of mouth, yes but the Jews were methodical when they copied scriptures and you can personally see this yourself with a 1000 year old manuscript of the book of Isaiah from the Dead Sea scrolls.


I agree that they were very diligent in ensuring that their histories were documented very accurately throughout generations. But that doesn't say anything about how you're supposed to read it.

Quote:
I do not believe we should ever westernize scripture but read it in context.  Yes, you can literally take from the book regarding David that God is with us through all things, that he is a merciful God for those who repent and turn from their sins.  There are lessons of God's character all throughout the Old Testament.  It was written to introduce man to his Creator.


You're talking about literal reading regarding theology and characteristics. I don't know of any doctrinal dispute about that. What the issue is is regarding the historical details presented.

Quote:
It should be read 100% fact, if you do not believe so give examples.


I'll give two: There weren't 600,000 Israelite warriors leading them out of Egypt (confusion between the Hebrew "allup" and "allep" resulting in the very-likely-incorrect numbers assessment), and the walls of Jericho didn't fall down because of the effects of seven days of marching and shofars.

As former military, you should be able to appreciate the distraction that an army marching around your city would cause, and not notice the warriors slowly scaling the walls and hiding in Rahab's apartment.

I'll pose a question: When you read that the Egyptians gave the Israelites all of their possessions in Exodus 12 as the Israelities were leaving, do you adopt the literal reading that would force you to think they willingly did so? Or would you have a separate theory?

Quote:
Genesis should be read literally, I can not see a reason why it should not or can not be read literally, do you?


Because we have the ability to reason and apply lessons learned from expert research and discovery.

We believe that God gave us the Earth to use for our purposes. I see no reason why God would give us the ability to reason if we weren't meant to use it to better understand what's around us. Applying some nuance doesn't change the picture the Bible paints of who God is, but it makes us appear a little less silly when we try to explain it to others.
  

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Re: Genesis 3:5 ...Shall Be As gods...
Reply #18 - Nov 19th, 2017 at 7:43pm
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There is danger in adopting the world's attempt to describe the beginning of the creation through evolution.  The story of the creation of the heavens and earth as described by God is as important as the disciples description and testimony of Jesus Christ.  Was sin an evolutionary process or were we tempted into sin as the Bible clearly describes?  Man uses evolution in an attempt to explain God away.  If we evolved then how can there be sin according to the world.  Why do we even question God's ability to create heaven and earth in six days?  Are we stating he is not capable or are we doubting the word?  I believe the scriptures because it clearly reveals how sin came into existence and the absolute need of a Savior.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Genesis 3:5 ...Shall Be As gods...
Reply #19 - Nov 19th, 2017 at 8:47pm
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MJ wrote on Nov 19th, 2017 at 7:34pm:
I'm not referring to anything you said. I'm making a reference to the commonly-cited point that the majority of Christians were raised in church themselves, and that those beliefs are often passed down through generation. And that's fine, as long as they know why they believe it.


I agree that they were very diligent in ensuring that their histories were documented very accurately throughout generations. But that doesn't say anything about how you're supposed to read it.


You're talking about literal reading regarding theology and characteristics. I don't know of any doctrinal dispute about that. What the issue is is regarding the historical details presented.


I'll give two: There weren't 600,000 Israelite warriors leading them out of Egypt (confusion between the Hebrew "allup" and "allep" resulting in the very-likely-incorrect numbers assessment), and the walls of Jericho didn't fall down because of the effects of seven days of marching and shofars.

As former military, you should be able to appreciate the distraction that an army marching around your city would cause, and not notice the warriors slowly scaling the walls and hiding in Rahab's apartment.

I'll pose a question: When you read that the Egyptians gave the Israelites all of their possessions in Exodus 12 as the Israelities were leaving, do you adopt the literal reading that would force you to think they willingly did so? Or would you have a separate theory?


Because we have the ability to reason and apply lessons learned from expert research and discovery.

We believe that God gave us the Earth to use for our purposes. I see no reason why God would give us the ability to reason if we weren't meant to use it to better understand what's around us. Applying some nuance doesn't change the picture the Bible paints of who God is, but it makes us appear a little less silly when we try to explain it to others.

And you are stating it did not happen based on...?  I also do not dare use my military eperience to explain away intervention of God's hands in the affairs of Israel, that sir would be foolish.  Many of Israel's kings faced humiliating defeats for not trusting in God's ability to handle Israel's enemies.
« Last Edit: Nov 19th, 2017 at 9:02pm by Seawolf »  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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