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Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › SCOTUS to begin to hear oral arguments: Wedding cakes v. religious beliefs?
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) SCOTUS to begin to hear oral arguments: Wedding cakes v. religious beliefs? (Read 665 times)
patrick2
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Re: SCOTUS to begin to hear oral arguments: Wedding cakes v. religious beliefs?
Reply #20 - Dec 3rd, 2017 at 11:26pm
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USyeah wrote on Dec 3rd, 2017 at 8:57pm:
obviously you didn't read what the judges wrote in their opinion about practicing one's religious beliefs.




You've clearly misinterpreted the decision.
  
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Re: SCOTUS to begin to hear oral arguments: Wedding cakes v. religious beliefs?
Reply #21 - Dec 3rd, 2017 at 11:43pm
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patrick2 wrote on Dec 3rd, 2017 at 11:26pm:
You've clearly misinterpreted the decision.


no I understand the decision but clearly you didn't read what the comment added at the end of their decision.

but neither of us are judicial scholars so we will see how it turns out.

  
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Re: SCOTUS to begin to hear oral arguments: Wedding cakes v. religious beliefs?
Reply #22 - Dec 3rd, 2017 at 11:47pm
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The Wreath of Khan wrote on Dec 3rd, 2017 at 11:11pm:
And municipalities should have the right to refuse to allow such businesses to operate.

Nope. Private rights > government.
  


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patrick2
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Re: SCOTUS to begin to hear oral arguments: Wedding cakes v. religious beliefs?
Reply #23 - Dec 3rd, 2017 at 11:53pm
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USyeah wrote on Dec 3rd, 2017 at 11:43pm:
no I understand the decision but clearly you didn't read what the comment added at the end of their decision.

but neither of us are judicial scholars so we will see how it turns out.



Uh, noooooooooo .... from the reputable site Findlaw - the USSC decision:


United States Supreme Court

NEWMAN v. PIGGIE PARK ENTERPRISES, (1968)

No. 339

Argued: March 7, 1968    Decided: March 18, 1968



One who succeeds in obtaining an injunction under Title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 should ordinarily recover an attorney's fee under 204 (b) unless special circumstances would render such an award unjust, and should not be limited, as the Court of Appeals held, to an award of counsel fees only if the defenses advanced were "for purposes of delay and not in good faith."
  
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Re: SCOTUS to begin to hear oral arguments: Wedding cakes v. religious beliefs?
Reply #24 - Dec 4th, 2017 at 12:54am
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""Undoubtedly defendant Bessinger has a constitutional right to espouse the religious beliefs of his own choosing, however, he does not have the absolute right to exercise and practice such beliefs in utter disregard of the clear constitutional rights of other citizens," U.S. District Judge Charles Earl Simons Jr. wrote in 1966.

By the time the Supreme Court heard the case in 1968, the issue was the award of fees to the lawyers representing the black South Carolinians who sued Bessinger's restaurants. But in a footnote to its unsigned 8-0 opinion, the court called the religious freedom argument and Bessinger's other defenses "patently frivolous.""

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/03/some-see-echoes-68-court-case-in-wedding-ca...





  
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Re: SCOTUS to begin to hear oral arguments: Wedding cakes v. religious beliefs?
Reply #25 - Dec 4th, 2017 at 2:21am
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USyeah wrote on Dec 4th, 2017 at 12:54am:
""Undoubtedly defendant Bessinger has a constitutional right to espouse the religious beliefs of his own choosing, however, he does not have the absolute right to exercise and practice such beliefs in utter disregard of the clear constitutional rights of other citizens," U.S. District Judge Charles Earl Simons Jr. wrote in 1966.


District judge Simons was wrong - the plaintiffs' case was based on the Civil Rights Act of 1964, a legislative act, not a "constitutional right".

Quote:
By the time the Supreme Court heard the case in 1968, the issue was the award of fees to the lawyers representing the black South Carolinians who sued Bessinger's restaurants. But in a footnote to its unsigned 8-0 opinion, the court called the religious freedom argument and Bessinger's other defenses "patently frivolous.""


Once again, the USSC case dealt with payment of attorney fees, nothing else.  Footnotes are written by individual justices, and do not necessarily represent the majority of the court, much less adjudicate any dispute.



  
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Re: SCOTUS to begin to hear oral arguments: Wedding cakes v. religious beliefs?
Reply #26 - Dec 4th, 2017 at 7:06am
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Lomelis wrote on Dec 3rd, 2017 at 3:20pm:
This is a different twist.

The argument is that forcing the cake maker to provide whatever message on the cake would violate his right to freedom of expression.


This has nothing to do with freedom of expression. It 's like a secretary who would refuse to type a message dictated by her boss. She's not the source of the message, in fact, the message doesn't concern her, she's just writing it down, as is in her job description.
  

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Re: SCOTUS to begin to hear oral arguments: Wedding cakes v. religious beliefs?
Reply #27 - Dec 4th, 2017 at 7:14am
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Jasmine wrote on Dec 3rd, 2017 at 11:47pm:
Nope. Private rights > government.


THere's no such thing as a right to discriminate.
  

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Walking in a Wally Wonderland
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Re: SCOTUS to begin to hear oral arguments: Wedding cakes v. religious beliefs?
Reply #28 - Dec 4th, 2017 at 7:26am
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BowHunter wrote on Dec 4th, 2017 at 7:06am:
This has nothing to do with freedom of expression. It 's like a secretary who would refuse to type a message dictated by her boss. She's not the source of the message, in fact, the message doesn't concern her, she's just writing it down, as is in her job description.

By your logic an Atheist group could seek out Christian own businesses and demand such things as these Christian bakers to bake a cake and inscribe horrible insults and curses of Jesus and the Virgin Mary and the Christian Bakers are merely the secretaries of their Atheist Boss with no interest in the thing they create with their own hands.
  

" The few will always act like the few.”

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Re: SCOTUS to begin to hear oral arguments: Wedding cakes v. religious beliefs?
Reply #29 - Dec 5th, 2017 at 7:16am
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Walking in a Wally Wonderland wrote on Dec 4th, 2017 at 7:26am:
By your logic an Atheist group could seek out Christian own businesses and demand such things as these Christian bakers to bake a cake and inscribe horrible insults and curses of Jesus and the Virgin Mary and the Christian Bakers are merely the secretaries of their Atheist Boss with no interest in the thing they create with their own hands.


Do you think that when a baker writes "I love you", that means that he loves the person who's the recipient of the cake? What if he dislikes that person, is that cause to refuse to make the cake, on the grounds of freedom of expression? With your logic, a baker can refuse any order, on a whim.
  

A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
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