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Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › Why do leftist-libbies hate the free market?
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Why do leftist-libbies hate the free market? (Read 870 times)
Limey
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Re: Why do leftist-libbies hate the free market?
Reply #50 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 4:03pm
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TowardLiberty wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 3:32pm:
Yes, powerful interests will do as you say.

And one of the main ways they achieve their goals is by getting their pet regulations passed.

To the extent we regulate markets we open them up to more corruption and rent seeking. We have not found a better way to regulate the market than the discipline of consumer demand and competition.

Perhaps we will never have fair markets, least of all because people have different notions of what is fair. That said we know we can have free markets to the extent that people are able to buy and sell at the price of their choosing.

And that's all I look for to see if the market is free.






Can I put down a marker?

"Regulation" means a lot of things.


My own area of expertise is in worker/public safety regulations, and I have experience at board level in numerous companies, of different nationality.


On this subject, its absolutely the case that business does not want regulation and the only driver towards allowing decent precautions to be taken is the fear of enforcement action by the authorities.


Recently, the level of fines and imprisonment available to the Court went up (low fines were not deterring large firms) and the effect has been dramatic


"Regulation" dealing with product rules, licensing to exclude /permit players, is one thing, this is quite another.
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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EF
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Re: Why do leftist-libbies hate the free market?
Reply #51 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 4:07pm
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And I think we should keep in mind that this thread was started by Jaz, the "ardent Christian," who has admitted she's not really all that smart.  Her premise is flawed.  I am not a "leftist libby" but I do know some, and none of them hate free markets.  They do hate bullies and unfairness, but not free markets.  And one can  have a free market while still limiting the ability of buyers and sellers to be unfair and be bullies.  It may be an imperfect free market, but any free market will be imperfect. 
  

non sumus stulti
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TowardLiberty
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Re: Why do leftist-libbies hate the free market?
Reply #52 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 4:08pm
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EF wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 3:59pm:
And here I go meeting you there. I would argue that when I mentioned I thought you had written something like that you immediately wrote back, "Nope, you're thinking of someone else."  I stood corrected.  Now I stand uncorrected.


Yes, you did. I don't recall what that was over, tbh.

Quote:
I like what you've done with your hair, too.

It's like.. damnnn TL.
  

"Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist." J M Keynes

"In the first place, the dichotomy between "theoretical" and "practical" is a false one. In economics, all arguments are theoretical. And, since economics discusses the real world, these theoretical arguments are by their nature "practical" ones as well." M Rothbard
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Re: Why do leftist-libbies hate the free market?
Reply #53 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 4:10pm
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Limey wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 4:03pm:
Can I put down a marker?

"Regulation" means a lot of things.


My own area of expertise is in worker/public safety regulations, and I have experience at board level in numerous companies, of different nationality.


On this subject, its absolutely the case that business does not want regulation and the only driver towards allowing decent precautions to be taken is the fear of enforcement action by the authorities.


Recently, the level of fines and imprisonment available to the Court went up (low fines were not deterring large firms) and the effect has been dramatic


"Regulation" dealing with product rules, licensing to exclude /permit players, is one thing, this is quite another.

That's fair. There are common sense regulations and there are those which are tools of corruption. Good point.
  

"Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist." J M Keynes

"In the first place, the dichotomy between "theoretical" and "practical" is a false one. In economics, all arguments are theoretical. And, since economics discusses the real world, these theoretical arguments are by their nature "practical" ones as well." M Rothbard
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EF
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Re: Why do leftist-libbies hate the free market?
Reply #54 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 4:18pm
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TowardLiberty wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 4:08pm:
Yes, you did. I don't recall what that was over, tbh.

It's like.. damnnn TL.


Your shoes are to die for, too.
  

non sumus stulti
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Re: Why do leftist-libbies hate the free market?
Reply #55 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 4:21pm
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TowardLiberty wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 3:59pm:


***

To be fair, I hope that hairdo was free.

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Proud member: Coalition of the Decent.
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Limey
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Re: Why do leftist-libbies hate the free market?
Reply #56 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 4:23pm
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President in Exile Bama Beau wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 4:21pm:
***

To be fair, I hope that hairdo was free.

***



If so it was worth every penny.
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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Re: Why do leftist-libbies hate the free market?
Reply #57 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 4:25pm
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Limey wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 4:23pm:
If so it was worth every penny.


It's almost time for awards.  How about a joint award for newcomer of the year for Limey and TL?
  

non sumus stulti
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Re: Why do leftist-libbies hate the free market?
Reply #58 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 6:25pm
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MJ wrote on Dec 5th, 2017 at 11:47pm:
What's a "free" market? I don't ask that to be cheeky, but your definition will differ from mine, and I imagine both of us support less "free" markets than TL, our resident Austrian libertarian.

I don't hate the market, and I don't love government, especially when people whom I feel are unqualified, uninformed and wrong are running it. But there's problems that exist that pose collective action problems and require a more centralized response to alleviate the problem. And if run correctly, government action CAN help solve problems. I fully expect many to disagree, but that's my personal answer.


Like small-town pharmacies, for example? If bigoted pharmacist runs the only pharmacy in town and doesn't feel like filling prescriptions to a (insert adjective here) person, is that person supposed to just go without needed medication?

Sure, other towns have pharmacies, but that's undue burden on the one needing their medication. Or eventually another pharmacist may open shop, sure, but if people die without the medication in the meantime, that's not worth it to me.


Because workers die from horrible and unsafe working conditions and crippling poverty. That may be worth it to some, depending on their ideology. It's not to me.


What's to stop them from doing that now? Just this spring I had two separate companies make me job offers where they were competing against each other, and I took the one with better pay, better benefits and better location. Free market at work.


I don't disagree. This is why I have no problem believing the market will adapt to laws concerning air & water quality, for example. The market will be fine, and in the meantime, we can have some basic niceties like roads, sanitation services, etc.



Awesome post.
  

If you are more fortunate than others, build a longer table, not a taller fence.
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Limey
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Re: Why do leftist-libbies hate the free market?
Reply #59 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 6:44pm
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EF wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 4:25pm:
It's almost time for awards.  How about a joint award for newcomer of the year for Limey and TL?


TL was here before me so I get it by default.


Plus I’m taller and have the more attractive accent, to American women.


Sorry TL much as I like you (and that sweater is sweeeeet) the newcomer award is mine.


Mine.
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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