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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's capital (Read 1,170 times)
Limey
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Re: Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's capital
Reply #20 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 5:35am
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I Wish You A Harry Christmas wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 2:10am:
That means they aren't smart enough to stop attacking.


You think that, after 70 years, they should just accept the outcome of the Israeli terrorist campaign and settle down in their impoverished besieged enclaves?

  

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Re: Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's capital
Reply #21 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 6:56am
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Jasmine wrote on Dec 5th, 2017 at 11:54pm:
From ABCnews.com:


Full article: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-expected-declare-jerusalem-capital-israel/s...

If this is a pro-Israel move, I heartily applaud it. But I'm a little confused. How can Trump dictate what Israel's capital is? Shouldn't that be up to Israel?

In 1995, our country announce that we would move the embassy in Israel to Jerusalem by 1999.  This has become our official stated U. S. Policy. Israel has continued to ask us to make good on our comittment to them to do this!

However, ever since then, every six months whatever President has been in office has had to sign a six month waiver on our stated policy.  This was done to try to appease the Palastinians and to allow time for them to begin to negotiate a two state solution in good faith.

The number one criteria for any two state solution is that the Palastinians must recognize Israels right to exist!  They refuse to do this and continue to conduct bloody Terror attacks on Israeli civilians in an attempt to drive them out!  They still teach their children the ideology of Hate towards all Jews and the goal of the extinction of Israel!not working.

Trump is simply no longer going to authorize the six month extension of the `1995 U.S. policy we announced to the world and is moving our embassy to the true capitol of the Jewish homeland.  There are mixed feelings in Israel,.   Even though all the Israeli Jews want to one day see Jerusalem as their Capitaol, they know sure as Allah made Little rag head Terrorist, that many Isralies will be slaughtered by the Muscum Bastards!

At some time, it becomes apparent that this appeasement is not working!
  

" The few will always act like the few.

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Re: Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's capital
Reply #22 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 7:08am
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Walking in a Wally Wonderland wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 6:56am:
In 1995, our country announce that we would move the embassy in Israel to Jerusalem by 1999.  This has become our official stated U. S. Policy. Israel has continued to ask us to make good on our comittment to them to do this!

However, ever since then, every six months whatever President has been in office has had to sign a six month waiver on our stated policy.  This was done to try to appease the Palastinians and to allow time for them to begin to negotiate a two state solution in good faith.

The number one criteria for any two state solution is that the Palastinians must recognize Israels right to exist!  They refuse to do this and continue to conduct bloody Terror attacks on Israeli civilians in an attempt to drive them out!  They still teach their children the ideology of Hate towards all Jews and the goal of the extinction of Israel!not working.

Trump is simply no longer going to authorize the six month extension of the `1995 U.S. policy we announced to the world and is moving our embassy to the true capitol of the Jewish homeland.  There are mixed feelings in Israel,.   Even though all the Israeli Jews want to one day see Jerusalem as their Capitaol, they know sure as Allah made Little rag head Terrorist, that many Isralies will be slaughtered by the Muscum Bastards!

At some time, it becomes apparent that this appeasement is not working!



Two genuine questions for you Wally.


Before you read them please note, my personal opinion is that Israel does have a right to exist, and there's no justification for terrorist attacks on civilians ever.


OK, question 1: Why does Israel have a right to exist?


Subsidiary question (call it question 1a) why does Israel take land by force and occupy it against international law and common humanity?



Question 2, if you'd had a nation set up on your land, partly by international Diktat and partly through terrorism, which excluded you from your family land and impoverished you, would you take it?
  

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Re: Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's capital
Reply #23 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 8:49am
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Limey wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 7:08am:
Two genuine questions for you Wally.


Before you read them please note, my personal opinion is that Israel does have a right to exist, and there's no justification for terrorist attacks on civilians ever.


OK, question 1: Why does Israel have a right to exist?


Subsidiary question (call it question 1a) why does Israel take land by force and occupy it against international law and common humanity?



Question 2, if you'd had a nation set up on your land, partly by international Diktat and partly through terrorism, which excluded you from your family land and impoverished you, would you take it?

Great Question. 


The Jewish People 'occupied' what is now the State of Israel for hundreds of years going back to the time of the Bible.  During such time, lands where 'occupied' by conquest; "to the Victor belong the spoils"  No one disputes this history!

The period of both  World Wars found the area of the Meddle East in a great change.  European powers (including Great Britain) fought the Kaiser and the Ottoman Empire and later the Great Mufdi and the NAZI's.  After the first World War the map of mesapotamia changed and later, after the second world war the 3rd word was created, as the map was changed again.  As I am sure you are well aware, Great Britian played a pivotal role in the redrawing of the lines and the creation of new states, including the division of what was called "Trans-Jordan" into two new states; Jordan and Israel.   

Prior to the creation of the state of Israel (when the Palastinian Terrorists were the name given by the British to describe Jews blowing up school buses full of occupying British forces kids) the area was called Palestine and it was a British Mandate (sort of like the US now owns Puerto Rico and Guam and once owned the Panama Canal Zone.)

The people now known as Palastinians derived their name from Yassar Arafat who labled his group of arabs  to be Palastinians just as the British had labeled jews living in the area "Palastinians" prior to the creation of the state of Israel.

Both the new state of Jordan and the rest of the Arab states did not accept the traditional nomadic arab tribes who were left with nowhere to go (other than the state of Jordan, which the British had created for them).  They all found it to be in their own interest to support these people having their own homeland (taken from the land of the Hews, not their own land) regardless of what the former colonial powers and the newly formed United Nations said. These nomadic Arab tribes of the Middle East owned no lands, but were the gypsy tribes of the Middle East traveling through the lands of other wealthy Shieks and Kings.

Remember that most of those who support the "new" Palastinians (arab outcast tribes) are the descendants of the arabs who sided with Germany in both the First and Second World Wars, AGAINST BRITAIN AND THE REST OF THE ALLIED POWERS.

That's my recollection of this issue, anyhow.  Does this answer your question? 

Oh, as far as your answer to question #2: Remeber the Six Days War, when all the Arab States tried to destroy the new state of Israel and Israel defeated all of them all on her own?  Israel kept the gaza strip and the Golen Heights to prevent being attacked inn the future.

Do you suppose if the Arab States had driven the jews into the sea as they had intended, we would be demanding they give back they land they took in the war?



« Last Edit: Dec 6th, 2017 at 9:04am by Walking in a Wally Wonderland »  

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Re: Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's capital
Reply #24 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 11:08am
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.... and question 2?
  

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Re: Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's capital
Reply #25 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 11:22am
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Jasmine wrote on Dec 5th, 2017 at 11:54pm:
From ABCnews.com:


Full article: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-expected-declare-jerusalem-capital-israel/s...

If this is a pro-Israel move, I heartily applaud it. But I'm a little confused. How can Trump dictate what Israel's capital is? Shouldn't that be up to Israel?

Because he thinks he is God.
  

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Re: Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's capital
Reply #26 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 11:41am
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Limey wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 11:08am:
.... and question 2?


from my ealier response..


(snip)

" Oh, as far as your answer to question #2: Remeber the Six Days War, when all the Arab States tried to destroy the new state of Israel and Israel defeated all of them all on her own?  Israel kept the gaza strip and the Golen Heights to prevent being attacked inn the future.

Do you suppose if the Arab States had driven the jews into the sea as they had intended,


Would be demanding they give back they land they took in the war? "


also:

" When the 1949 armistice agreements were signed, they
affirmed demographic and territorial realities resulting from
the war. In terms of territory, the land that the UN allocated to
the Jewish state in the 1947 partition plan was enlarged by 37
per cent, from 14,900 square kilometers to 20,500 square
kilometers. Had Arab states accepted the partition plan in
1947 and established an Arab state alongside a Jewish state,
not only would an Arab state have been created in Palestine,
but the Jewish state would have been more than 5,000 square
kilometers smaller than it ultimately ended up being. In terms
of demography, during the 1947-1949 conflict more than ..."

https://israeled.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/1949-2-February-24-Israeli-Egypt...


Instead, they decided war was the way to go and attempted to wipe the new state of Israel off the map.    Angry


Notice where the areas now in dispute are located on this map of 1950 Israel as determined by the UN



The Palastinians (as well as most of the other Arab States) still do not recognize Israels right to exist.  This is the only basis 'negotiations" can be held.
« Last Edit: Dec 6th, 2017 at 11:54am by Walking in a Wally Wonderland »  

" The few will always act like the few.

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Re: Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's capital
Reply #27 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 12:46pm
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Limey wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 7:08am:
Two genuine questions for you Wally.


Before you read them please note, my personal opinion is that Israel does have a right to exist, and there's no justification for terrorist attacks on civilians ever.


OK, question 1: Why does Israel have a right to exist?


Subsidiary question (call it question 1a) why does Israel take land by force and occupy it against international law and common humanity?



Question 2, if you'd had a nation set up on your land, partly by international Diktat and partly through terrorism, which excluded you from your family land and impoverished you, would you take it?


I struggle a little with these questions myself.  I suppose a country that exists, even if it came into existence under somewhat questionable circumstances, has a right to continue to exist. 

Sending the Jews to their biblical homeland was, IMO, simply a recognition of the need for them to have SOMEPLACE to call their own following the Holocaust, and that particular place was picked for two reasons: (1) the aformentioned history and (2) the current occupants were in no position to launch a meaningful opposition to it.  (It's like if I saw somebody who was hungry and decided he had a right to be fed, so I took your lunch to feed him because I knew you had little power to resist.)

Seeing that I live in a great country, the land occupied by which was pretty much stolen from the natives who were here when it was "discovered," I have to temper my umbrage about the Jews being given that land. 

My answer to your question 2 is no, I would not take it.  I would resist.  But I think at some point I (and others from whom the land was taken) would realize there has to be a middle ground.  The modern state of Israel has existed since 1947 and doesn't appear to be going anywhere.  And if most of the deaths from continuing to fight it are from MY side, maybe I need to give a little.
  

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Re: Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's capital
Reply #28 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 1:15pm
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Limey wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 7:08am:
Two genuine questions for you Wally.


Before you read them please note, my personal opinion is that Israel does have a right to exist, and there's no justification for terrorist attacks on civilians ever.


OK, question 1: Why does Israel have a right to exist?


Subsidiary question (call it question 1a) why does Israel take land by force and occupy it against international law and common humanity?



Question 2, if you'd had a nation set up on your land, partly by international Diktat and partly through terrorism, which excluded you from your family land and impoverished you, would you take it?

#1 Israel did not steal land from the Palestinians they took back what was rightfully theirs. #2 the Israelis aren't the Terrorists that would be the muslim terrorist child molesting goat humping knuckledraggin Neanderthals that you love and support so much.
  

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Re: Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's capital
Reply #29 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 1:28pm
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RWB wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 1:15pm:
#1 Israel did not steal land from the Palestinians they took back what was rightfully theirs. #2 the Israelis aren't the Terrorists that would be the muslim terrorist child molesting goat humping knuckledraggin Neanderthals that you love and support so much.



Why do we manage to have a reasonable and thoughtful discussion until you slither in?
  

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