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Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's capital
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's capital (Read 1,171 times)
Limey
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Re: Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's capital
Reply #30 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 1:30pm
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Walking in a Wally Wonderland wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 11:41am:
from my ealier response..


(snip)

" Oh, as far as your answer to question #2: Remeber the Six Days War, when all the Arab States tried to destroy the new state of Israel and Israel defeated all of them all on her own?  Israel kept the gaza strip and the Golen Heights to prevent being attacked inn the future.

Do you suppose if the Arab States had driven the jews into the sea as they had intended,


Would be demanding they give back they land they took in the war? "


also:

" When the 1949 armistice agreements were signed, they
affirmed demographic and territorial realities resulting from
the war. In terms of territory, the land that the UN allocated to
the Jewish state in the 1947 partition plan was enlarged by 37
per cent, from 14,900 square kilometers to 20,500 square
kilometers. Had Arab states accepted the partition plan in
1947 and established an Arab state alongside a Jewish state,
not only would an Arab state have been created in Palestine,
but the Jewish state would have been more than 5,000 square
kilometers smaller than it ultimately ended up being. In terms
of demography, during the 1947-1949 conflict more than ..."

https://israeled.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/1949-2-February-24-Israeli-Egypt...


Instead, they decided war was the way to go and attempted to wipe the new state of Israel off the map.    Angry


Notice where the areas now in dispute are located on this map of 1950 Israel as determined by the UN

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh280/wallyguy100/Israel/gz-150.gif

The Palastinians (as well as most of the other Arab States) still do not recognize Israels right to exist.  This is the only basis 'negotiations" can be held.




That doesn't really answer the question though - empathise a little, what would your approach be in the situation I described?
  

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forgotten centrist
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Re: Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's capital
Reply #31 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 1:32pm
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Trump is again taking on the role of disruptor.  His first approach to a problem is to smash it apart, and in the ensuing chaos position himself as the arbitrator.  He thinks that by pre-empting further negotiations, he will knock the palestinians so badly askew that they will have no choice but to petition for whatever consideration he feels willing to extend.

But the problem is that this is one-sided -- he's not disrupting the israelis, he's enabling them.  He's taking one of the primary points of negotiation off the table, and aggressively pushing ahead those that are gunning for a one-state solution.  Israel itself is far from united on this, and a large portion of their population is distinctly uncomfortable with the idea of remaining in the role of prison warden for the foreseeable future.

I find it disconcerting that this decision can fall to just the president, absent any real policy debate.
  

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Re: Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's capital
Reply #32 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 1:35pm
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The fundamental problem with Israel is that the profound injustices are never addressed.



This move does not help.
  

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Re: Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's capital
Reply #33 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 1:39pm
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Pavarotti Sings John W Gacy wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 1:28am:
Trump won.
Deal with it.



  

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Re: Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's capital
Reply #34 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 1:42pm
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This problem has been analyzed for decades.  There is only one real approach that has any chance of bringing peace to the region.  The israelis and a coalition of all the major arab states need to forge a Grand Bargain.

The arabs acknowledge Israel as a state, open full diplomatic and market relations, and agree to a regional security framework that addresses terrorism on all sides.

The israelis concede land for a demilitarized palestinian state, along the 67 line with some adjustments.

And security for the palestinian areas gets handled by an international force -- maybe the UN -- instead of the israeli military and intel forces.

If I were Kushner, I would be aggressively pushing that.  But Kushner himself has funded israeli "settlements" and has made no effort to reach out across the border.  Imperial overreach strikes again, and peace takes another long holiday.
  

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Re: Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's capital
Reply #35 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 1:53pm
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Limey wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 1:28pm:
Why do we manage to have a reasonable and thoughtful discussion until you slither in?

I know you hate it when I Expose your lies. DEAL WITH IT or quit Lying it's that simple Knuckle head.
  

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Re: Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's capital
Reply #36 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 1:54pm
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Limey wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 1:35pm:
The fundamental problem with Israel is that the profound injustices are never addressed.



This move does not help.


Well, Congress decided to have their cake and eat it, too, by saying the embassy should move to Jerusalem unless the president postpones it in increments.  Trump's the president.  He is up to his ass in alligators and needs some relief.  Setting off a bomb someplace else gives him some.  Plus it pushes a button his core support needs pushed occasionally. 

Trump cares naught for anything but Trump.  Whether it helps or hurts any other situation is irrelevant.  He thinks it will help his, and that's all that matters. 
  

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Re: Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's capital
Reply #37 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 2:05pm
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forgotten centrist wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 1:42pm:
This problem has been analyzed for decades.  There is only one real approach that has any chance of bringing peace to the region.  The israelis and a coalition of all the major arab states need to forge a Grand Bargain.

The arabs acknowledge Israel as a state, open full diplomatic and market relations, and agree to a regional security framework that addresses terrorism on all sides.

The israelis concede land for a demilitarized palestinian state, along the 67 line with some adjustments.

And security for the palestinian areas gets handled by an international force -- maybe the UN -- instead of the israeli military and intel forces.

If I were Kushner, I would be aggressively pushing that.  But Kushner himself has funded israeli "settlements" and has made no effort to reach out across the border.  Imperial overreach strikes again, and peace takes another long holiday.

There will eventually be a peace accord but in the end nations will war against Israel.  That is a certainty.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's capital
Reply #38 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 2:18pm
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Jasmine wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 1:37am:
So Trump must be doing something right.


Sure .. Technically, getting Israelis kill IS doing something..
  
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Re: Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's capital
Reply #39 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 2:43pm
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RWB wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 1:53pm:
I know you hate it when I Expose your lies. DEAL WITH IT or quit Lying it's that simple Knuckle head.


Shush now.
You're boring.
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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