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Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's capital
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's capital (Read 1,172 times)
Limey
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Re: Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's capital
Reply #40 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 2:46pm
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forgotten centrist wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 1:42pm:
This problem has been analyzed for decades.  There is only one real approach that has any chance of bringing peace to the region.  The israelis and a coalition of all the major arab states need to forge a Grand Bargain.

The arabs acknowledge Israel as a state, open full diplomatic and market relations, and agree to a regional security framework that addresses terrorism on all sides.

The israelis concede land for a demilitarized palestinian state, along the 67 line with some adjustments.

And security for the palestinian areas gets handled by an international force -- maybe the UN -- instead of the israeli military and intel forces.

If I were Kushner, I would be aggressively pushing that.  But Kushner himself has funded israeli "settlements" and has made no effort to reach out across the border.  Imperial overreach strikes again, and peace takes another long holiday.



Exactly right.


A big part of the problem is that bozos like RWB and Stu vote for the American politicians who look "tough".


Clearly the voters concerned, as RWB amply demonstrated above, have the most rudimentary and partial understanding, and the politicians place their own position far above considerations about the far-off Middle East and the unfortunate inhabitants of it.
  

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Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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Walking in a Wally Wonderland
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Re: Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's capital
Reply #41 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 3:25pm
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forgotten centrist wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 1:32pm:
Trump is again taking on the role of disruptor.  His first approach to a problem is to smash it apart, and in the ensuing chaos position himself as the arbitrator.  He thinks that by pre-empting further negotiations, he will knock the palestinians so badly askew that they will have no choice but to petition for whatever consideration he feels willing to extend.

But the problem is that this is one-sided -- he's not disrupting the israelis, he's enabling them.  He's taking one of the primary points of negotiation off the table, and aggressively pushing ahead those that are gunning for a one-state solution.  Israel itself is far from united on this, and a large portion of their population is distinctly uncomfortable with the idea of remaining in the role of prison warden for the foreseeable future.

I find it disconcerting that this decision can fall to just the president, absent any real policy debate.


The Jerusalem Embassy Act was debated by Congress in 1995 and passed by both Houses..   It was intended to have been completed by 1999.  However, every six months, an extension (of the delay) must be approved by the President.  It's been passed from Clinton, to Bush to Obama and now to Trump, without any Presidetn Having Vetoed it or signing it into law.  *They used to call this vest pocking a piece of legislation)

https://www.congress.gov/104/plaws/publ45/PLAW-104publ45.pdf

« Last Edit: Dec 6th, 2017 at 3:31pm by Walking in a Wally Wonderland »  

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Re: Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's capital
Reply #42 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 4:28pm
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Walking in a Wally Wonderland wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 3:25pm:
The Jerusalem Embassy Act was debated by Congress in 1995 and passed by both Houses..   It was intended to have been completed by 1999.  However, every six months, an extension (of the delay) must be approved by the President.  It's been passed from Clinton, to Bush to Obama and now to Trump, without any Presidetn Having Vetoed it or signing it into law.  *They used to call this vest pocking a piece of legislation)

https://www.congress.gov/104/plaws/publ45/PLAW-104publ45.pdf



I am not sure your defintion of pocket veto (which is what I think you meant by "vest pocking" but I could be wrong) is valid.  A pocket veto is still a veto, I think.  This bill became law without signature of the president.  A bill that has been pocket vetoed needs further action to become law.
  

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Walking in a Wally Wonderland
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Re: Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's capital
Reply #43 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 5:12pm
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EF wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 4:28pm:
I am not sure your defintion of pocket veto (which is what I think you meant by "vest pocking" but I could be wrong) is valid.  A pocket veto is still a veto, I think.  This bill became law without signature of the president.  A bill that has been pocket vetoed needs further action to become law.

correct.   A POTUS can only sign a bill into law or veto it.  Just like so many other extra-constitutional activities over the years, Clinton, Bush and Obama simply signed a 6 month Executive Order delaying the decision (veto or sign it).  I assume the public reason is to allow a good time when the Muscum Terrorists won't be as likely to go Ape Shit over it!  Like there will every be a good time when the Muscum Terrorists won't go Ape Shit every time things don't go their way.

The real argument against not signing and continuing to kick this can down the road, is "oh don't do that; that might really piss off the radicals extremists!  This gives the jihadist the veto over are foreign policy!

The point is, that both the House and the Senate passed it after lengthy debate and now President Trump has stopped the kicking the can don the road! 

In any event, it may take several years to build a safe secure embassy in Jerusalem.  The point is, that it will be done pursuant to a lawful act of Congress made Law by our Presidents signature. 
  

" The few will always act like the few.

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Re: Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's capital
Reply #44 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 5:14pm
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So.

Much.

WINNING.
  
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Re: Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's capital
Reply #45 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 5:28pm
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Josie wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 5:14pm:
So.

Much.

WINNING.

Smiley

Trump's announcement this morning just by itself makes me glad I voted for him. You add that to the Supreme Court, better support for our military, trashing the Paris Accord, Iran, etc. - Yes, so much winning! Smiley
  


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Re: Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's capital
Reply #46 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 6:41pm
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Josie wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 5:14pm:
So.

Much.

WINNING.



Only if you’re a cheerleader for a team.


If you care about things like justice, or, say, the tragic containment of Israeli and Palestinian lives by a constant state of near-war, you’d not be so ditzy.


I heard Mr. Trump on the news talking about this. His main point seemed to be that all the other Presidents hadn’t done it, and he himself is really great.  Really great.




Is it ok to call him an embarrassing dangerous dickhead?
  

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Josie
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Re: Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's capital
Reply #47 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 6:50pm
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Limey wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 6:41pm:
Only if you’re a cheerleader for a team.


If you care about things like justice, or, say, the tragic containment of Israeli and Palestinian lives by a constant state of near-war, you’d not be so ditzy.


I heard Mr. Trump on the news talking about this. His main point seemed to be that all the other Presidents hadn’t done it, and he himself is really great.  Really great.




Is it ok to call him an embarrassing dangerous dickhead?

You think Trump is a dangerous dickhead but European leadership allowing mass amounts of child rapists and terrorists into your country is perfectly fine and safe? You're an embarrassment to mankind.
  
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Re: Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's capital
Reply #48 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 7:09pm
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Josie wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 6:50pm:
You think Trump is a dangerous dickhead but European leadership allowing mass amounts of child rapists and terrorists into your country is perfectly fine and safe? You're an embarrassment to mankind.

I nominate this for post of the year.
  

Liberalism The incurable disease.
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Limey
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Re: Trump to declare Jerusalem as Israel's capital
Reply #49 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 7:39pm
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Josie wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 6:50pm:
You think Trump is a dangerous dickhead but European leadership allowing mass amounts of child rapists and terrorists into your country is perfectly fine and safe? You're an embarrassment to mankind.


Yawn.


It's like those North Koreans who believe the hype.


Grow up, Josie, you claim to be a grandma but you buy the propaganda like a dumb teenager.
  

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Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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