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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Israel Celebrates. (Read 3,814 times)
Running Deer
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Re: Israel Celebrates.
Reply #80 - Jan 29th, 2018 at 9:25pm
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Seawolf wrote on Jan 29th, 2018 at 9:17pm:
Explain to me where the Constitution gives the feds power to regulate and fund schools?


Wrong question.  The states themselves are forbidden from "respecting an establishment of religion", just as the federal government is.
  

"If cousins, I would much prefer to marry one my Neanderthal relatives than a screeching chimpanzee which might bite my face off as has happened recently. Of course, chimps are not even a human species so procreation between humans and chimps is out of the question." - joe_christian, on sex
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Re: Israel Celebrates.
Reply #81 - Jan 29th, 2018 at 9:26pm
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Running Deer wrote on Jan 29th, 2018 at 9:25pm:
Wrong question.  The states themselves are forbidden from "respecting an establishment of religion", just as the federal government is.

The Constitution never forbade states from this.  The text of the 1st Amendment says in the first word CONGRESS...  shall not.  Prayer in school was common till shortly after the 70s.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Israel Celebrates.
Reply #82 - Jan 30th, 2018 at 1:18pm
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Seawolf wrote on Jan 29th, 2018 at 3:23pm:
By the way, Blue Laws are not federal laws.  Those are local laws by communities.


It doesn't matter if it's state or federal...   It's your religious values forced on everyone.

Seawolf wrote on Jan 29th, 2018 at 6:26am:
I ask you, what have we passed that has imposed on your freedom?  


  
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Re: Israel Celebrates.
Reply #83 - Jan 30th, 2018 at 1:20pm
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Seawolf wrote on Jan 29th, 2018 at 3:26pm:
1st Amendment.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof....


Nonsense.. A student as an individual can pray all they'd like..  The truth is that you want to enforce 'prayer' on ALL students..

  
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Re: Israel Celebrates.
Reply #84 - Jan 30th, 2018 at 8:24pm
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Seawolf wrote on Jan 29th, 2018 at 9:26pm:
The Constitution never forbade states from this.  The text of the 1st Amendment says in the first word CONGRESS...  shall not.  Prayer in school was common till shortly after the 70s. 


The 14th Amendment says that no state shall deny to anyone the equal protection of the laws.  This has been interpreted - correctly - to make (almost all of) the Bill of Rights apply to the states as well as the federal government.
  

"If cousins, I would much prefer to marry one my Neanderthal relatives than a screeching chimpanzee which might bite my face off as has happened recently. Of course, chimps are not even a human species so procreation between humans and chimps is out of the question." - joe_christian, on sex
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Re: Israel Celebrates.
Reply #85 - Jan 30th, 2018 at 10:28pm
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Semi-Omnipotent wrote on Jan 30th, 2018 at 1:18pm:
It doesn't matter if it's state or federal...   It's your religious values forced on everyone.



Actually it does matter as those laws are local laws, not federal laws.  It was a poor example.  On the other hand I showed you a clear example of a federal law that would force religious institutes to violate their conscious.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Israel Celebrates.
Reply #86 - Jan 30th, 2018 at 10:37pm
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Running Deer wrote on Jan 30th, 2018 at 8:24pm:
The 14th Amendment says that no state shall deny to anyone the equal protection of the laws.  This has been interpreted - correctly - to make (almost all of) the Bill of Rights apply to the states as well as the federal government.

I disagree, but it is pointless because all states have adopted the idea of the First Amendment which was a limitation upon Congress.  The point I am trying to make is that neither states or the feds have any authority to violate ones right to freely express their faith publicly.  You can not force someone of faith to violate their faith within reason, meaning that if their faith deprives someone else freedom then that would be an exception.

  I bring up schools because the Dept of Education was created and overstepped it's role by turning public schools into government controlled property due to it's funding, something that the Constitution gives the feds no authority to do.  It is no coincidence that prayers are now banned after it's creation.  Schools were meant to be controlled by the community with no government interference.

  Parents before the Dept of Education were participates in deciding school curriculum.  Now the feds force their curriculum onto schools due to it's overreach and are influential in forcing schools to abandon the days of prayer that was common from our conception until the 80s.

  People love to quote the first half of the "religious freedom" clause out of context and ignore the 2nd half that was to ensure the freedom to openly and publicly express your faith.  The very first sentence was written to promote religious liberties, not to limit them as is the case today.

  I can cite an example of Congress allowing their facility to be used as a church on the weekends, the founders did not view this as a violation of the Constitution they wrote.  John Adams declared an official day of prayer and fasting to dedicate this nation to God, George Washington asked for a Bible to be sweared in on, but these actions would be considered a violation of the Constitution as we see it today, with the exception of swearing in on a Bible.  We are not acting in accordance to how the founders originally intended.
« Last Edit: Jan 30th, 2018 at 10:50pm by Seawolf »  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Israel Celebrates.
Reply #87 - Jan 30th, 2018 at 10:52pm
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Running Deer wrote on Jan 29th, 2018 at 9:23pm:
Meh, it's swimmable.



Go on then!


Actually, wait until August.  Bit chilly just now.
  

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Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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Re: Israel Celebrates.
Reply #88 - Jan 31st, 2018 at 8:53am
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Seawolf wrote on Jan 30th, 2018 at 10:28pm:
Actually it does matter as those laws are local laws, not federal laws.  It was a poor example. 


No.. No one has specified that it need be Federal Law.  Blue Laws are an excellent example of religious zealots jamming their beliefs down the throats of everyone.

Yet another example is the overly religious forcing Creationism on high school students.  It goes on and on..



Seawolf wrote on Jan 30th, 2018 at 10:28pm:
On the other hand I showed you a clear example of a federal law that would force religious institutes to violate their conscious.


Amazing that you'd try to make that about practicing your religion.  What you offered is an example of a organization being allowed force their religious beliefs on their employees.  I can just imagine the fit you'd pitch if a company forced their employees to face Mecca periodically during the day ..


  
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Re: Israel Celebrates.
Reply #89 - Jan 31st, 2018 at 2:54pm
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Semi-Omnipotent wrote on Jan 30th, 2018 at 1:20pm:
Nonsense.. A student as an individual can pray all they'd like..  The truth is that you want to enforce 'prayer' on ALL students..



Like we evil British do.  Grin
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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