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Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › If Trump does an interview with Mueller and lies, can he then pardon his own felony?
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) If Trump does an interview with Mueller and lies, can he then pardon his own felony? (Read 284 times)
Greg55_99
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Re: If Trump does an interview with Mueller and lies, can he then pardon his own felony?
Reply #10 - Jan 8th, 2018 at 7:27pm
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So Bob Mueller wants to have a little chat with Trump.  Just a little chat....

Greg
  

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Maestro
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Re: If Trump does an interview with Mueller and lies, can he then pardon his own felony?
Reply #11 - Jan 8th, 2018 at 7:32pm
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Vypr wrote on Jan 8th, 2018 at 7:05pm:
Otherwise you are granting a nearly unchecked and absolute power.


Now you've got it.

Seriously.

The presidential pardon is nearly unchecked and absolute.
  



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Jasmine
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Re: If Trump does an interview with Mueller and lies, can he then pardon his own felony?
Reply #12 - Jan 8th, 2018 at 7:35pm
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No one should have the power to simply "pardon" a criminal. I don't understand the reasoning for giving the president that ability.
  


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Re: If Trump does an interview with Mueller and lies, can he then pardon his own felony?
Reply #13 - Jan 8th, 2018 at 7:47pm
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Jasmine wrote on Jan 8th, 2018 at 7:35pm:
No one should have the power to simply "pardon" a criminal. I don't understand the reasoning for giving the president that ability.


It's a check on the ability to condemn an innocent.
  



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Vypr
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Re: If Trump does an interview with Mueller and lies, can he then pardon his own felony?
Reply #14 - Jan 8th, 2018 at 7:50pm
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Maestro wrote on Jan 8th, 2018 at 7:47pm:
It's a check on the ability to condemn an innocent.

I would propose it is untested in the situation where a President could be pardoning crimes in which he is potentially personally involved. Doing so would be viewed by most Americans as an abuse of power and running counter to the intent of the founders.
  

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NorthKoreanFrogmanInvasion(!!), aka ReeweeWittoBwain:   THE POPE wrote on Nov 15th, 2017 at 9:32am:
Trump's an idiot everyone knows that


stu_gatze wrote on Dec 28th, 2017 at 3:49pm:
blacks LOVED slavery
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Re: If Trump does an interview with Mueller and lies, can he then pardon his own felony?
Reply #15 - Jan 8th, 2018 at 7:50pm
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Maestro wrote on Jan 8th, 2018 at 7:47pm:
It's a check on the ability to condemn an innocent.

I still don't agree with it. The judgement process belongs in court, not the White House.

Way too often, presidents use this power to pardon the guilty - for political reasons.
  


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Re: If Trump does an interview with Mueller and lies, can he then pardon his own felony?
Reply #16 - Jan 8th, 2018 at 9:49pm
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Vypr wrote on Jan 8th, 2018 at 7:50pm:
I would propose it is untested in the situation where a President could be pardoning crimes in which he is potentially personally involved.


I'm sorry, but it's irrelevant. The Constitution is clear. It can be fixed, but you'd need an amendment to do it.

There is no way a pardon gets overturned the way the Constitution is written. There isn't even a mechanism for such a thing. It's like suggesting we vote out Supreme Court justices at the ballot box. It simply can't be done.

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Doing so would be viewed by most Americans as an abuse of power and running counter to the intent of the founders.


Probably. Hence the powers to vote out of office and impeach. Those are checks (imperfect though they are) against rogue pardons.
  



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Vypr
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Re: If Trump does an interview with Mueller and lies, can he then pardon his own felony?
Reply #17 - Jan 8th, 2018 at 10:09pm
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Maestro wrote on Jan 8th, 2018 at 9:49pm:
I'm sorry, but it's irrelevant. The Constitution is clear. It can be fixed, but you'd need an amendment to do it.

There is no way a pardon gets overturned the way the Constitution is written. There isn't even a mechanism for such a thing. It's like suggesting we vote out Supreme Court justices at the ballot box. It simply can't be done.


Probably. Hence the powers to vote out of office and impeach. Those are checks (imperfect though they are) against rogue pardons.

So why do you say he can't pardon himself? There is nothing in the Constitution explicitly forbidding this either.
  

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NorthKoreanFrogmanInvasion(!!), aka ReeweeWittoBwain:   THE POPE wrote on Nov 15th, 2017 at 9:32am:
Trump's an idiot everyone knows that


stu_gatze wrote on Dec 28th, 2017 at 3:49pm:
blacks LOVED slavery
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Maestro
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Re: If Trump does an interview with Mueller and lies, can he then pardon his own felony?
Reply #18 - Jan 8th, 2018 at 10:27pm
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Vypr wrote on Jan 8th, 2018 at 10:09pm:
So why do you say he can't pardon himself? There is nothing in the Constitution explicitly forbidding this either.


That's different because of what pardon means and what it has meant. It's a question of whether, in a legal sense, the word has ever meant anything other than one agent pardoning another. And the answer is no. The commonly accepted legal definition has always assumed 2 agents.

One is an issue of enumerated powers, the other is an issue of legal definitions.
  



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Vypr
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Re: If Trump does an interview with Mueller and lies, can he then pardon his own felony?
Reply #19 - Jan 8th, 2018 at 11:32pm
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Maestro wrote on Jan 8th, 2018 at 10:27pm:
That's different because of what pardon means and what it has meant. It's a question of whether, in a legal sense, the word has ever meant anything other than one agent pardoning another. And the answer is no. The commonly accepted legal definition has always assumed 2 agents.

One is an issue of enumerated powers, the other is an issue of legal definitions.

Once you introduce commonly accepted legal definition with respect to pardoning yourself, you are forced to ask the question WHEN was that commonly accepted legal definition developed. Unless it was from day 1, you have the potential for pardoning of crimes to which you as President are party to be subject to legal review by the Supreme Court in the same way any attempt to pardon yourself directly would be. Both instances are used to circumvent the law and your own culpability. The only question is at what point would the SCOTUS throw it to the States for an amendment.

And yes, I understand your argument on this. I just feel the difference between the two situations is such that a SCOTUS review would not be automatically out of the question for the second case.
  

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NorthKoreanFrogmanInvasion(!!), aka ReeweeWittoBwain:   THE POPE wrote on Nov 15th, 2017 at 9:32am:
Trump's an idiot everyone knows that


stu_gatze wrote on Dec 28th, 2017 at 3:49pm:
blacks LOVED slavery
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