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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Attempted deal on immigration (Read 283 times)
patrick2
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Attempted deal on immigration
Jan 9th, 2018 at 7:29pm
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Trump offers a trade allowing the "dreamers". i.e., illegal aliens brought as children to the US, to stay, in return for: the wall, end of the infamous immigration lottery, and end of chain migration.  The lib media likes to portray the "dreamers" as hopeful innocent children, when some of them are as old as 35.  The libs won't agree to this and here's why.

The whole leftwing promotion of the illegal alien invasion has to do with political power for themselves.  The last election showed they've FINALLY alienated white working class men, their neglected former key constituency, with their obsession with minorities, transgenders, feminazis, etc.

The libs put together a numeric majority in the last election consisting of minorities, millennial losers, and young feminazi women, but because of the electoral college system, that wasn't enough and won't be in 2020. 

The illegal alien invasion - in the eyes of the leftwing,  millions of new democrat voters - is effected by ALL the above-mentioned mechanisms, including anchor babies, which Trump hasn't addressed.  The importation of Mexicans and latin americans is the future lifeblood of the leftwing, and Trump should realize they won't cooperate on any of it.  Short of him finding a few democrats he can buy off with, say, infrastructure projects, he should advance his policies with executive orders.
  
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Jasmine
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Re: Attempted deal on immigration
Reply #1 - Jan 9th, 2018 at 7:35pm
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In my view, chain migration and the lottery are the two biggest keys to a palatable deal. I actually could do without a wall, which I am not convinced would be effective. There are far more effective solutions that could be done. We just lack the will to implement them.
  


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patrick2
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Re: Attempted deal on immigration
Reply #2 - Jan 9th, 2018 at 7:40pm
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Jasmine wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 7:35pm:
In my view, chain migration and the lottery are the two biggest keys to a palatable deal. I actually could do without a wall, which I am not convinced would be effective. There are far more effective solutions that could be done. We just lack the will to implement them.


Wall works fine for Israel, which is keeping out not just economic refugees like the US, but armed determined killers.  The Berlin wall going all the way back to the 1960s worked.  The experience is that a wall works.
  
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Jasmine
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Re: Attempted deal on immigration
Reply #3 - Jan 9th, 2018 at 7:45pm
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patrick2 wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 7:40pm:
Wall works fine for Israel, which is keeping out not just economic refugees like the US, but armed determined killers.  The Berlin wall going all the way back to the 1960s worked.  The experience is that a wall works.

I just don't think a wall would work in this case. There's a reason Mexicans are called "jumping beans."
  


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Re: Attempted deal on immigration
Reply #4 - Jan 9th, 2018 at 8:35pm
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Jasmine wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 7:45pm:
I just don't think a wall would work in this case. There's a reason Mexicans are called "jumping beans."

I laughed way harder at this than I should have  Grin
  
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patrick2
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Re: Attempted deal on immigration
Reply #5 - Jan 9th, 2018 at 8:50pm
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Jasmine wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 7:45pm:
I just don't think a wall would work in this case. There's a reason Mexicans are called "jumping beans."


I don't think they can jump over 30 foot walls.  Can run some electricity through there too.   Wink
  
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MJ
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Re: Attempted deal on immigration
Reply #6 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 12:13am
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patrick2 wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 7:40pm:
Wall works fine for Israel, which is keeping out not just economic refugees like the US, but armed determined killers.  The Berlin wall going all the way back to the 1960s worked.  The experience is that a wall works.


Ah, but there's a difference:

Quote:
WASHINGTON — The Trump administration would cut or delay funding for border surveillance, radar technology, patrol boats and customs agents in its upcoming spending plan to curb illegal immigration — all proven security measures that officials and experts have said are more effective than building a wall along the Mexican border.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/08/us/politics/trump-border-wall-funding-surveil...

How well is a wall going to work with nobody monitoring it?
  

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MJ
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Re: Attempted deal on immigration
Reply #7 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 12:28am
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patrick2 wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 7:29pm:
Trump offers a trade allowing the "dreamers". i.e., illegal aliens brought as children to the US, to stay, in return for: the wall, end of the infamous immigration lottery, and end of chain migration ... The libs won't agree to this and here's why.


I'll tell you what this lib thinks.

On the last two, sure, fine. I don't really care. As for DACA-for-wall funding, I say no deal. I'd say give us DACA first, by itself, and then we'll horse-trade for the rest.

The wall is meaningless as substance, aside from the giant waste of money it would be. It wouldn't work, but it wouldn't really harm anything. It's more symbolic than anything, but symbols matter.

If you don't want to, that's fine. Pass your immigration package yourself, then. You control both houses of Congress and the Presidency, so getting the package you want shouldn't be THAT difficult.

OR.. if you're afraid you can't get the jackals in the Freedom Caucus in the House to sit long enough to vote to extend DACA in your package deal, it's popular enough that you can come to us to help give you a legislative accomplishment, but without your wall.

  

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patrick2
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Re: Attempted deal on immigration
Reply #8 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 1:44am
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MJ wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 12:28am:
I'll tell you what this lib thinks.

On the last two, sure, fine. I don't really care. As for DACA-for-wall funding, I say no deal. I'd say give us DACA first, by itself, and then we'll horse-trade for the rest.


No can do.  DACA without anything else in the deal will result in - nothing else.  Passing DACA without the wall is an open invitation to even MORE illegal immigration - which is of course why it's the lib position.

Quote:
The wall is meaningless as substance, aside from the giant waste of money it would be. It wouldn't work, but it wouldn't really harm anything. It's more symbolic than anything, but symbols matter.


The above has become a predictable mantra with no substance, no facts or arguments to back it up, and I'm guessing you don't have any either.  Wink

Quote:
If you don't want to, that's fine. Pass your immigration package yourself, then. You control both houses of Congress and the Presidency, so getting the package you want shouldn't be THAT difficult.


No Sparky - they need 60 votes because of filibusters, which means 9 democrat votes are needed.


  
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Re: Attempted deal on immigration
Reply #9 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 4:45am
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"The wall" should have been symbolic for an actual immigration proposal that leads potential immigrants to follow the legal pathway.  Not an actual "wall" which is idiotic.  It doesn't work.  Countless cities, countries, and empires built walls that failed.  All it takes is a shovel or a ladder and you can get around a wall.  The Great Wall of America isn't going to be built on our southern border and even it were it would fail.

What you need is actual policy that smoothly allows legal immigration of non violent migrants that can eventually assimilate to the local culture.  Full assimilation takes about 3 or 4 generations.

Our immigration system just basically sucks.  It's horribly inefficient and creates criminals of hard working people that risk basically everything in an attempt to better themselves and their families.

We have a culture that is unwilling to work the fields for a very small wage.  This cheap labor is necessary to ensure that we have a cheap food supply, however we don't have to deny these people the opportunity to move on and advance or provide opportunities for their children.
  

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Wadsworth wrote on Jul 2nd, 2018 at 4:13pm:
Watched it.  A shotgun is for long ranged shooting.  That is why hunters like them.  An AR-15 is not.  That video was misleading.

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