Liberty News Forum
Political News Forum - Let your opinions be heard on current news and politics. Not for wimps!
Political Opinion Page - Recent Posts - LNF Forums LNF in the Age of Empowerment!
Christian Forum - Religion Forum - Entertainment - Sports Forum
Military - A1 News Page - Computers Tech - Financial News - Bunker - Presidential Tracking Poll
The House - Off the Wall News - Page 2 - Rasmussen Reports Polls - Chat Room
Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HereChristian Forum › Is Abortion Murder?
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 11 Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Is Abortion Murder? (Read 3,150 times)
Seawolf
LNF Moderator
LNF Bunker
*****
Online

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 23,876
Joined: Oct 31st, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: Is Abortion Murder?
Reply #10 - Jan 29th, 2018 at 9:57am
Print Post  
billy.pilgrim wrote on Jan 29th, 2018 at 9:48am:
I'm serious SW. I also assume that any supposed all knowing super being wouldn't need ultrasound to know about the condition of a fetus.

So why did he command Moses to conduct what amounts to genocide - including killing babies and pregnant women?


For the record - I am opposed to abortion, but cannot accept that going back to coat hangers is the answer. All I see in the abortion issue is the politics of attracting single issue voters while doing nothing of substance to encourage carrying to term.



Because we get into the discussion of God’s judgement, that is not an easy discussion for unbelievers.  In the end God is going to judge each of us for our sins and the punishment is eternal.  Everyone of us are guilty of violating God’s law and there are consequences for this.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Limey.
LNF Speaker
The Writer's Croft
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 18,871
Location: the County Palatine
Joined: Dec 14th, 2012
Re: Is Abortion Murder?
Reply #11 - Jan 29th, 2018 at 3:26pm
Print Post  
Seawolf wrote on Jan 28th, 2018 at 7:23pm:
This is a Christian forum for Christians to discuss our faith, if you wish to question the existence of God, mock the faith or advocate there is no God, that is for the Religion forum, not the Christian forum.  If you have sincere questions, I am sure we will gladly answer your questions if they are sincere and not leading toward mocking us.  Again, you have the religion forum for that minus the language and the mocking.

I get it from both.  Ever watched an ultra-sound of the infant in a womb?  Changes the entire discussion about whether or not it is life.



I'm well aware of the forum rules.
It's a straight question.


I'm as blunt as you like on the main forum, I moderate things a bit on Religion, and on here (except when I forget it's not the Politics one-oops and sorry) I keep it nice.


"Nice" is not the same as "not having a robust conversation".
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
EF
LNF Speaker
The Writer's Croft
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline


Posts: 10,576
Joined: Jan 21st, 2012
Re: Is Abortion Murder?
Reply #12 - Jan 30th, 2018 at 12:54pm
Print Post  
Limey. wrote on Jan 27th, 2018 at 8:34pm:
Are you basing your morality on the Bible or your own innate/socialised sense of right and wrong?


Probably more the latter than the former for this reason:

Even people who do not believe in their Creator remain creations of that Creator and have certain characteristics that were imparted as part of the creation.  Some to a greater extent than others, true.  And it would appear some have little to none.

Some reserve it for occasional use.  For example, they may claim to be devout followers of Jesus on the one hand and then refer to other human beings as Taco Heads on the other.

I never have understood why any Christian would wonder where people who don't read and study the Bible "get their morality."  They get it from the same place everybody else does - their Creator.  God's word certainly reinforces it and improves upon it, but that it exists to any extent at all in a Created being is due to the Creator having put it there.

There is no question that the act of abortion terminates a life.  The fact is that abortion, even when illegal, was never considered murder under secular law.  It was not even much of a crime, frankly.  It was just illegal in about the same sense and with about the same level of concern as shoplifting. 

I believe that there are cases where a female should have the right to obtain a safe, legal abortion.  I think most alleged "pro-lifers" do, too.  Which makes them actually "pro-choice" - they just want to set the criteria for when it's okay.  I know of no pro-choice person who runs around promoting abortion.  They just believe that a woman should have the right to one.  Many of them are perfectly willing to set limits on that right.  But none of them are willing to consider all abortions as acts of murder. And I don't believe the vast majority of alleged pro-lifers do, either. 

Makes me think of this quote from a Catholic nun:

Sister Joan Chittister, a Benedictine nun, had this to say on Bill Moyers' show in November of 2004:

"I do not believe that just because you're opposed to abortion, that that makes you pro-life. In fact, I think in many cases, your morality is deeply lacking if all you want is a child born but not a child fed, not a child educated, not a child housed. And why would I think that you don't? Because you don't want any tax money to go there. That's not pro-life. That's pro-birth. We need a much broader conversation on what the morality of pro-life is."



  

non sumus stulti
but
accidit stercore
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MJ
Senior Member
**
Offline


Posts: 253
Location: Midwest
Joined: Jun 25th, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: Is Abortion Murder?
Reply #13 - Jan 30th, 2018 at 5:40pm
Print Post  
Seawolf wrote on Jan 29th, 2018 at 9:57am:
Because we get into the discussion of God’s judgement, that is not an easy discussion for unbelievers.  In the end God is going to judge each of us for our sins and the punishment is eternal.  Everyone of us are guilty of violating God’s law and there are consequences for this.


And after preaching Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God at people, do you ever find your outreach ineffective? That people want none of what you're selling?

Maybe try focusing your message on why God is good and loving, instead of why God is harsh and vindictive.
  

Cleek's Law: Today’s conservatism is the opposite of what liberals want today, updated daily.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
fair-minded know it all
LNF Party Leader
***
Online

fair-minded conservative
leaning independent

Posts: 4,740
Joined: Feb 17th, 2008
Gender: Male
Re: Is Abortion Murder?
Reply #14 - Jan 31st, 2018 at 4:53am
Print Post  
MJ wrote on Jan 30th, 2018 at 5:40pm:
And after preaching Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God at people, do you ever find your outreach ineffective? That people want none of what you're selling?

Maybe try focusing your message on why God is good and loving, instead of why God is harsh and vindictive.


If we wanted to successfully "sell" something we would share only sweet things. Scripture on the other hand warns us not to hold back the full counsel of God, both bad news and good news.  I find the warnings of Christ much scarier than Jonathon Edwards sermons.  Good news would not be understood unless one understands what the bad news is.   I'm not sure though what your snarky little comment has to do with the OP post concerning baby killing.
  

Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
fair-minded know it all
LNF Party Leader
***
Online

fair-minded conservative
leaning independent

Posts: 4,740
Joined: Feb 17th, 2008
Gender: Male
Re: Is Abortion Murder?
Reply #15 - Jan 31st, 2018 at 4:56am
Print Post  
Fiddler wrote on Jan 30th, 2018 at 3:18pm:
Translation: This is a Safe Space for those of us easily triggered by tough questions.


We didn't make the rules, the owner/founders of LNF did. 
"For Christians to meet and discuss Christianity. From Protestant to Catholic. Others, please use the religion board."
So I guess the purpose was for Christians of different traditions to discuss and argue their positions on doctrines/belief.
It's their house and their rules. They've provided other forums here where you can freely troll.



« Last Edit: Jan 31st, 2018 at 5:06am by fair-minded know it all »  

Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Seawolf
LNF Moderator
LNF Bunker
*****
Online

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 23,876
Joined: Oct 31st, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: Is Abortion Murder?
Reply #16 - Jan 31st, 2018 at 6:34am
Print Post  
fair-minded know it all wrote on Jan 31st, 2018 at 4:53am:
If we wanted to successfully "sell" something we would share only sweet things. Scripture on the other hand warns us not to hold back the full counsel of God, both bad news and good news.  I find the warnings of Christ much scarier than Jonathon Edwards sermons.  Good news would not be understood unless one understands what the bad news is.   I'm not sure though what your snarky little comment has to do with the OP post concerning baby killing.

You nailed this one.  How can anyone understand God's grace and mercy through Jesus Christ if they have no idea the punishment that awaits all of us in rebellion to God's authority and his word.  Jesus message has no meaning without understanding the consequences of our rebellion to God's authority.  Romans 3:10 sets the stage by stating that all have sinned, none are righteous in God's eyes.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Seawolf
LNF Moderator
LNF Bunker
*****
Online

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 23,876
Joined: Oct 31st, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: Is Abortion Murder?
Reply #17 - Feb 2nd, 2018 at 6:26am
Print Post  
MJ wrote on Jan 30th, 2018 at 5:40pm:
And after preaching Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God at people, do you ever find your outreach ineffective? That people want none of what you're selling?

Maybe try focusing your message on why God is good and loving, instead of why God is harsh and vindictive.

Your neighbor's house is on fire, do you walk over there and knock on the door and invite them for cookies and milk?  Your doctor knows your situation is grave and politely asks you to take your medicine, or does he bluntly tells you that unless you take the medicine there is no hope for survival.  Similarly, sinners are around us everyday facing God's wrath for their rebellion, why would you not warn them of God's punishment?  How can they see ANY justification of God's saving grace through his son if they are not told of God's impending judgement on all of mankind?  Many people are very comfortable in their sins and see no need for God, until they are made aware of the consequences of their sins.  I saw no justification to change my ways until I was made aware that there will be consequences for my rebellion and that God has provided me a way out.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Limey.
LNF Speaker
The Writer's Croft
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 18,871
Location: the County Palatine
Joined: Dec 14th, 2012
Re: Is Abortion Murder?
Reply #18 - Feb 2nd, 2018 at 7:17pm
Print Post  
You’re imagining that your neighbour’s house is on fire.


You’re not a doctor  - you imagine you are.

‘‘Tis is to stimulate a conversation, not to insult you.
« Last Edit: Feb 2nd, 2018 at 7:23pm by Limey. »  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Seawolf
LNF Moderator
LNF Bunker
*****
Online

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 23,876
Joined: Oct 31st, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: Is Abortion Murder?
Reply #19 - Feb 3rd, 2018 at 8:12am
Print Post  
Limey. wrote on Feb 2nd, 2018 at 7:17pm:
You’re imagining that your neighbour’s house is on fire.


You’re not a doctor  - you imagine you are.

‘‘Tis is to stimulate a conversation, not to insult you.

If we take the gospels at it's word then how could any Christian sit while unbelievers perish?  If I sat and watch my neighbors house burn without warning them that would be viewed as cold and heartless, if not evil.
« Last Edit: Feb 3rd, 2018 at 8:48am by Seawolf »  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 11
Send TopicPrint
 
Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HereChristian Forum › Is Abortion Murder?

LNF Home - Political Opinion Page
LNF Forums

Christian Forum - Religion Forum - Sports Forum - Entertainment - House
Military, History - Cooking and Crafts - Creative Writing
Off the Wall News - Science Forum - Tech Gadgets - Financial News - Humor
Bunker - Page 2 - Page 3 - Page 4 - Chat Room





Drudge Report - News Max - Rush Limbaugh - FrontpageMag
Advertise on the LNF - Twitter LNF - LNF Archive - LNF News
LNF Blog
News and Political Links
Political Blogs
Add your website or blog
Political Columnists
Political Humor
A1 News Page
David Limbaugh
Political Frog
Conservatives Directory
President Trump Approval Poll
Presidential Party Election Poll News forum posting, privacy policy and member rules