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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) American military power (Read 588 times)
President in Exile Bama Beau
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Re: American military power
Reply #40 - Feb 10th, 2018 at 10:36pm
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***

Limey. wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 7:12am:
I’m starting this thread after seeing Mr. Seawolf make a thought provoking comment about scaling back.

What do you all think about the following:

1. The place of the US on the world stage

Quote:
Foremost, but increasingly shared, focus of global attention.


2. How significant is your military in influencing that place

Quote:
Far too significant. Might does not make right.


3. Your alliances and aims

Quote:
We are allied with the rich and powerful in an effort
to make the rich and powerful more rich and powerful.


4. The level of spending

Quote:
Slavishly ridiculous.


5. The threat you face now, the future threat

Quote:
Our greatest threats are climate change, water shortages,
famine and exploitation of those catastrophes by the rich and
powerful to make themselves more rich and powerful.


6. The past 100 years- lessons of geopolitical strategy and military preparedness

Quote:
Thank Neptune for the protection provided by the Two Great Oceans.


7. The sale, gift and leasing of military kit as a economic and political tool (at home and abroad)

Quote:
Our "leaders" shamelessly pimp our military.
Some are worse about it than others.
trumP might be the worst of all.




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Re: American military power
Reply #41 - Feb 11th, 2018 at 8:05am
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President in Exile Bama Beau wrote on Feb 10th, 2018 at 10:22pm:
***
As to adding to the conversation, just a couple comments.

First, I doubt that trumP ever read or comprehended either
Machiavelli or Sun Tzu, or at least not in any meaningful way
as it would pertain to his ascension to power or the Presidency.
He is just not that smart, nor is he that deep. He is a huckster.
A very celebrated and notorious huckster, but a huckster nonetheless.
I don't say this because I underestimate him. Nobody fears what
he might be capable of more than I do. However, just as many of us
might have underestimated trumP at our own peril, a like number of us
have clearly overestimated him at that same peril, and the last thing
that the rest of us need to do is to rush from the one extreme to the other.


See now you've hit on exactly why I think the left has a problem right now.

Every single angle the Democrats are taking is predicated on one assumption.

That Trump is a moron.

In the face of mountains of evidence to the contrary. 

What happens if the basis for every strategy and maneuver you've got in mind is predicated on a lie?  How has that pretty much always worked out through human history?

You say you're not saying he's not that smart or deep not because you underestimate him.  But that's exactly the only reason you could think someone who has accomplished more than nearly everybody in human history isn't very smart.  And I don't even need to lean on his status as one of 45 people who've become president when I say he's accomplished more than nearly everybody in human history.  He'd already achieved that before becoming president.

I get your concern that I might be overestimating Trump.  But what exactly in everything you know about human history leads you to believe hucksters and con men are stupid?  I'll grant you the ones who are sitting in county jails for forging signatures on checks are pretty dumb.  But highly successful ones who've been conning people in full view of the public for 40 years and managing to turn millions into billions?  What makes you think that's an example of a stupid con man?  It doesn't even make sense.

I don't think I'm overestimating Trump.  Like I've said many times, it's not even that I think Trump is such a genius, it's that I think his opposition is so stupid.  And one of the reasons I think they're stupid is they think Trump is stupid.  So they make it easier for him than it has to be.

Quote:
Second, in a general comment re: the dissipation of American power or might,
I would argue that the greatest and continuing threat to our collective
will or might is not some foreign country or terrorist organization. Rather,
it is the growth of the multinational corporation and the consolidation
of all wealth and power in fewer and fewer hands. Russia, per se,
is no threat. Neither are India or Canada or Mexico. Even China is only
as much of a threat as we allow them to be. The real threat to our way
of life is the greed and power of corporations which are increasingly
either above the law or the actual law themselves. Militarily we can
still kick ass, and that won't go away any time soon. But of what
benefit is that to most working class Americans? And when was the
last time that we fought a war for anybody other than the rich and powerful?

***



I agree with you here.  So what do we do about it?  Assist the Democratic Party in further making those problems worse?

For example Bama.  Where do you stand on the multinational corporation strengthening trade pact known as TPP?  How do you feel about Obama trying to fast track it and make it a done deal before he was out of office?

Who's on our side?  The Democrats have proven time and again even under Obama they're not on our side.  Obamacare wasn't for the people.  It was for an Obama legacy and for insurance companies.  The big concern was keeping insurance companies profitable.  That's what they spent their time agonizing over and why they went with the individual mandate among other things.  The "average" person wasn't really even part of the equation.  The entire debate was how to make insurance companies profitable.  The entire debate was getting insurance companies on board.  Not getting the American people on board.

TPP was for Obama's legacy and for multinational corporations.

Who is on our side today? 

Bernie?  Is he going to lead the Democratic Party now? 

We all know Trump isn't on our side so much as he's just hostile to trade agreements, our foreign policy and immigration.  He'll screw the rest of us no problem if he can get what he wants on those issues. 

Yet Trump is still the one out there making the most compelling argument that he's FOR the average American and FOR America.

Sad!

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BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
I am not aware of any article
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Re: American military power
Reply #42 - Feb 11th, 2018 at 12:13pm
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I'm [i] very [/] pleased that I started this thread.

Thanks, chaps.
  

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Re: American military power
Reply #43 - Feb 11th, 2018 at 12:16pm
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Limey. wrote on Feb 11th, 2018 at 12:13pm:
I'm [i] very [/] pleased that I started this thread.

Thanks, chaps.

I am very pleased that you are still our best Allies, in spite of whatever political differences we may have from time to time.   Wink
  

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ĖMachiavelli

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Re: American military power
Reply #44 - Feb 11th, 2018 at 1:24pm
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*** 

Queshank wrote on Feb 11th, 2018 at 8:05am:
See now you've hit on exactly why I think the left has a problem right now.

Every single angle the Democrats are taking is predicated on one assumption.

That Trump is a moron.

In the face of mountains of evidence to the contrary. 

What happens if the basis for every strategy and maneuver you've got in mind is predicated on a lie?  How has that pretty much always worked out through human history?

You say you're not saying he's not that smart or deep not because you underestimate him.  But that's exactly the only reason you could think someone who has accomplished more than nearly everybody in human history isn't very smart.  And I don't even need to lean on his status as one of 45 people who've become president when I say he's accomplished more than nearly everybody in human history.  He'd already achieved that before becoming president.

I get your concern that I might be overestimating Trump.  But what exactly in everything you know about human history leads you to believe hucksters and con men are stupid?  I'll grant you the ones who are sitting in county jails for forging signatures on checks are pretty dumb.  But highly successful ones who've been conning people in full view of the public for 40 years and managing to turn millions into billions?  What makes you think that's an example of a stupid con man?  It doesn't even make sense.

I don't think I'm overestimating Trump.  Like I've said many times, it's not even that I think Trump is such a genius, it's that I think his opposition is so stupid.  And one of the reasons I think they're stupid is they think Trump is stupid.  So they make it easier for him than it has to be.



Maybe we are splitting hairs over or misconstruing the meaning of the word "stupid".
trumP is not stupid when it comes to his brand or his marketing of that brand.
He is stupid when it comes to just about anything else. He has been able to
sell himself to some segment of American consumers for some time now.
Sadly, as Americans have become more and more consumers and less
and less citizens, he was even able to sell himself as a political commodity
to just enough people that he was able to claim the Presidency, whether
legitimately or not. But that doesn't mean that he reads or understands
anything. Rather, it is a woeful commentary on just how far and fast we are sinking.


Queshank wrote on Feb 11th, 2018 at 8:05am:
I agree with you here.  So what do we do about it?  Assist the Democratic Party in further making those problems worse?

For example Bama.  Where do you stand on the multinational corporation strengthening trade pact known as TPP?  How do you feel about Obama trying to fast track it and make it a done deal before he was out of office?

Who's on our side?  The Democrats have proven time and again even under Obama they're not on our side.  Obamacare wasn't for the people.  It was for an Obama legacy and for insurance companies.  The big concern was keeping insurance companies profitable.  That's what they spent their time agonizing over and why they went with the individual mandate among other things.  The "average" person wasn't really even part of the equation.  The entire debate was how to make insurance companies profitable.  The entire debate was getting insurance companies on board.  Not getting the American people on board.

TPP was for Obama's legacy and for multinational corporations.

Who is on our side today? 

Bernie?  Is he going to lead the Democratic Party now? 

We all know Trump isn't on our side so much as he's just hostile to trade agreements, our foreign policy and immigration.  He'll screw the rest of us no problem if he can get what he wants on those issues. 

Yet Trump is still the one out there making the most compelling argument that he's FOR the average American and FOR America.

Sad!

Queshank


President Obama and rightful President HRC are both corporatists.
Shame on both of them, but that is what they are.
Bernie Sanders is not, and I suspect that is why,
if he runs again in 2020, he might well be the nominee.
I also suspect that his brand of democratic socialism
will make him a target of Republican McCarthyism which
will further shame, divide and ultimately disgrace us.

But still, it will be worth it, especially if he wins.

P.S. Two things . . .

First, as I have stated many times before,
I don't believe that trumP will be the 2020 GOP
Presidential candidate. Rather, I'd bet on Pence.

Second, if I've taken this thread off topic, I apologize.


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Re: American military power
Reply #45 - Feb 11th, 2018 at 1:28pm
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A Wally in Winter wrote on Feb 11th, 2018 at 12:16pm:
I am very pleased that you are still our best Allies, in spite of whatever political differences we may have from time to time.   Wink


Well that's lovely.


My apologies for the way our government has dismantled our military capability down to European levels but we can probably still help out with a couple of battalions.
  

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Re: American military power
Reply #46 - Feb 11th, 2018 at 1:33pm
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Limey. wrote on Feb 11th, 2018 at 1:28pm:
Well that's lovely.


My apologies for the way our government has dismantled our military capability down to European levels but we can probably still help out with a couple of battalions.


Britain will be fine as long as you continue to fund the 4th Spitball Brigade.
  

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Re: American military power
Reply #47 - Feb 11th, 2018 at 1:58pm
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Harrys Sockpuppet4335 wrote on Feb 11th, 2018 at 1:33pm:
Britain will be fine as long as you continue to fund the 4th Spitball Brigade.


***

Britain will be fine alright. They will probably remain in the EU,
and if we are lucky, give us more people like Christopher Steele.

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Re: American military power
Reply #48 - Feb 11th, 2018 at 2:07pm
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Limey. wrote on Feb 11th, 2018 at 1:28pm:
Well that's lovely.


My apologies for the way our government has dismantled our military capability down to European levels but we can probably still help out with a couple of battalions.

As our know, we struggle with our domestic politics, too.  Both of our nations are strong enough to survive the ebb and wane of both the conservative and the liberal tug of 'war'.

I happen to subscribe to the belief in Peace through Strength, as did Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher.  Each of our nations have strong political forces who are much more of the opinions that appeasement and disengagement, somehow will make the world a safer place and is in each of our nation's best strategic interests.

When you through in globalization and open borders and immigration into the mix, other nation's ideas of what is in the best interests of Britain and the best interests of the USA, seem to carry far more weight than the options of of own citizens (or so it sometimes seems). Cheers!  Smiley

  

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Re: American military power
Reply #49 - Feb 11th, 2018 at 2:17pm
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A Wally in Winter wrote on Feb 11th, 2018 at 2:07pm:
As our know, we struggle with our domestic politics, too.  Both of our nations are strong enough to survive the ebb and wane of both the conservative and the liberal tug of 'war'.

I happen to subscribe to the belief in Peace through Strength, as did Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher.  Each of our nations have strong political forces who are much more of the opinions that appeasement and disengagement, somehow will make the world a safer place and is in each of our nation's best strategic interests.

When you through in globalization and open borders and immigration into the mix, other nation's ideas of what is in the best interests of Britain and the best interests of the USA, seem to carry far more weight than the options of of own citizens (or so it sometimes seems). Cheers!  Smiley



***

Respectfully, your mistake is in equating our strength to the
amount of money we spend on our military and/or our borders.

Our "strength" comes from much more than just that.
It comes from our health and our education. It comes
from an upwardly mobile and aspirational working class.
It comes from our good jobs, and our clean air and water.
It comes from our tolerance and our diversity. It comes
from being inclusive rather than being exclusive. It comes
from sharing the wealth and the credit, as well as equally
shouldering the responsibility, and when necessary, the blame.

Our military is our military, and God bless them for their
service and their sacrifice. Our borders are our borders,
and certainly they must be policed and respected. But
our strength comes from something much greater than
either of those. It comes from an idea we call America.

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