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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Judge Sticks It to LGBT Activists in Special Ruling for Cake Shop Owner (Read 5,532 times)
Rabbit_Reborn
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Re: Judge Sticks It to LGBT Activists in Special Ruling for Cake Shop Owner
Reply #230 - Feb 13th, 2018 at 9:41am
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BowHunter wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 9:36am:
Frédéric Joliot-Curie: awarded the Nobel Prize in Chemistry... He's also a communist.

Jean Moulin: Remembered as the symbol of the French resistance, betrayed and captured by the Nazis, tortured for days and then executed. Interred in the Pantheon, the highest honor ever bestowed upon heroes of the French republic regardless of political stances. He also was a communist.


And there are plenty more where those two came from.

The communists were known for their active role in the French resistance.


So much for your... categories.

I'm unsure you understand what "anecdotal" means, and I don't know if there is a French equivalent to the expression "the exception which proves the rule".

And undoubtedly there were tough-as-nails communists in the French resistance. The cream rises to the top during times such as that, and Nazi persecution forced hardship, and hardship is the best forge for intestinal fortitude.

Those two were also born over a century ago. Go to American campuses today, or to protests with a communist contingent. Each male you find will either be a failure or will look as though he consumes 3 oz of tofu per day, and that's it.
  

Wadsworth wrote on Jun 11th, 2018 at 3:40pm:
You are awfully concerned about who gets to live.  Why is it so important to you?
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Queshank
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Re: Judge Sticks It to LGBT Activists in Special Ruling for Cake Shop Owner
Reply #231 - Feb 13th, 2018 at 9:46am
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 11th, 2018 at 9:53am:
I believe it's hard to have that discussion unless we're very clear what private police forces would look like.

I'm fully for the privatization of everything, in theory, but I don't know exactly how it would work out. I have some differing theories on how it might work.

For example, a private police force existing to protect a community would have as part of its contract the protection of all members of the community, regardless of race, sexual orientation, religion, or shoe-wearing.

If a private police force failed to protect an individual because of one of those reasons, it would be in breach of contract. Either the offending officer would be fired, or the community would look for a different contractor.

Seems a better solution than the current situation, where there are examples of police officers who not only fail to protect communities, but occasionally actually cause harm. At which point they are put on paid leave and then generally exonerated.


Great googly moogly this thread got big.  I'll just try to keep up with everything being discussed as a reader instead of trying to continue as part of the discussion.

The fact is this is an issue where I don't know where I stand.  And I'm definitely looking for insights from others to figure it out. 

This isn't as cut and dried as proponents of either viewpoint try to make it.  Something in me rebels at the notion that we are having a serious discussion about legitimizing the viewpoints and opinions of primitive bronze age denizens in modern society.  And I find myself engaging in these discussions by first forcibly trying to tamp that tendency down in the interests of objectivity.  Because we are also talking about one of my other big problems which is the government meddling in the way people conduct themselves in their personal affairs and conduct their business.  Which for many, many, MANY business owners is a personal affair. 

But I always come back to the fact that objectively speaking ... we are literally having a conversation about legitimizing the viewpoints and opinions of primitive bronze age denizens in modern society.  Um.  crappity smack the bronze age?  Does it even need a hashtag?

What I'm trying to figure out in this line of questions is where is the dividing line?  If the state needs to enforce all laws equally this means we're able to violate the "1st amendment rights" of people that are state employees?  If it's private subcontractor work ala private police departments does this mean the state can freely violate the "1st amendment rights" of people that are simply affiliated with the state?  That's a slippery slope of its own, no?  Because it's not far from there to say the state can freely violate the 1st amendment rights of EMTs and require them to give CPR to people they use their religion to justify despising.  And when we've gotten to this point do the 1st amendment "religious rights" even have a place in modern society?

Just wanted to clarify why I was being so stubborn on the private vs public worker angle.  Now I'll just read the thread.  Over the next few weeks.  Maybe get through it.  Maybe not heh.

Queshank
  

BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
I am not aware of any article
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BowHunter
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Re: Judge Sticks It to LGBT Activists in Special Ruling for Cake Shop Owner
Reply #232 - Feb 13th, 2018 at 9:57am
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 9:41am:
I'm unsure you understand what "anecdotal" means, and I don't know if there is a French equivalent to the expression "the exception which proves the rule".

And undoubtedly there were tough-as-nails communists in the French resistance. The cream rises to the top during times such as that, and Nazi persecution forced hardship, and hardship is the best forge for intestinal fortitude.

Those two were also born over a century ago. Go to American campuses today, or to protests with a communist contingent. Each male you find will either be a failure or will look as though he consumes 3 oz of tofu per day, and that's it.


Every communist I know is a meat eater and a few are childhood friends whom you wouldn't dare calling pussies to their faces unless you have a death wish of sorts... anyway, they're all European and none of them have spent much time in American campuses. So you can claim some kind of American exception there, although it's highly dubious that you'd have anything other than your own prejudice to support that "theory" of yours.

Personally, I hate tofu and most of my friends do so as well. However, I don't see how being a vegetarian is any indication of someone's wimpiness.

You'll have to explain that with little more than your usual nonsense.
  

When Q hears gallop noises he doesn't think zebras; he thinks there's a Democrat behind a curtain, making gallop noises.
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Queshank
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Re: Judge Sticks It to LGBT Activists in Special Ruling for Cake Shop Owner
Reply #233 - Feb 13th, 2018 at 10:05am
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 11th, 2018 at 9:29am:
It'd be nice if nobody gave a shit about what other people do with their privately owned property in more situations, instead of demanding some slice of ownership authority over it, when nobody else's rights are being directly violated.


I have to clarify with the Curves commentary I'm making.

A big part of the reason nobody gives a shit is because there are PLENTY of other options available for men.  Gyms started as the hangouts for men.  Curves decided to provide a hangout for women.  I think that's perfectly acceptable and I'm not going to go fight to get a membership at Curves to be the only man there around a bunch of fat women, when I can simply go to Tony's Gym and probably get a membership for cheaper and get the same results.  And I'm not saying fat women to be insulting.  I've become a pretty fat man in recent years.  I'm not judging.  I'm saying if they were all supermodels in leotards there's a definite chance I might try to get a membership.  (Badoom CHING!)

That's not the same as a cake shop.  Who opened up to specialize in WEDDINGS.  For example in our County community of about 50,000 people there is one bridal shop in town.  One.  That's where everyone goes to rent tuxes for proms and for weddings and has since I was in high school.  If they refused to rent tuxes for a same sex wedding, you would have to drive 3 hours to get a tux. 

By contrast here in town we have the YMCA, Tony's Gym, Anytime Fitness, SNAP Fitness, at least one local Yoga center, and a Curves.  Those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.  Not to mention I can always just go for a walk on our community walking paths and save myself the membership fees.  It's the same community that supports that many gyms and only one bridal shop.

(Okay now I'm serious this time, I'm just going to lurk and read and stop interrupting.)

Queshank
  

BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
I am not aware of any article
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Re: Judge Sticks It to LGBT Activists in Special Ruling for Cake Shop Owner
Reply #234 - Feb 13th, 2018 at 10:13am
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 11th, 2018 at 9:46am:
Is it somehow more sensible to believe that the blender for sale belongs, in part, to the collective? And why?


Because the ownership of the blender is temporary and fleeting at best.  It's either purchased for resale.  Or it's purchased for private use and eventually resold if it doesn't wind up being disposed of. 

In each situation that blender is eventually going to belong to someone else by virtue of its very existence and purpose.  Whether it's a free blender in the dump for someone to fix, or in a rummage sale, or on a store shelf, its whole purpose and the point of its creation ... a blender's "Meaning of Life" is to make it's way around the collective in one form or another.

My toes ... not so much.

(Dammit I'm not good at shutting up)

Queshank
  

BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
I am not aware of any article
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Re: Judge Sticks It to LGBT Activists in Special Ruling for Cake Shop Owner
Reply #235 - Feb 13th, 2018 at 10:15am
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Are any of you familiar with a famous movie called "La Grande Bouffe"?

It's a famous Italian movie from 1973 in it, various people including one played by the illustrious Marcello Mastroianni decide to kill themselves by eating.

At some point, they sit a fat prostitute in what looks like a sumptuous wedding cake and then eat around her.

I wonder what these goodie-two shoes would have thought had they known what their customers did with their cake in a situation like that. Grin
  

When Q hears gallop noises he doesn't think zebras; he thinks there's a Democrat behind a curtain, making gallop noises.
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BowHunter
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Re: Judge Sticks It to LGBT Activists in Special Ruling for Cake Shop Owner
Reply #236 - Feb 13th, 2018 at 10:20am
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Queshank wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 10:13am:
...

(Dammit I'm not good at shutting up)

Queshank



Truer... well, you know.
  

When Q hears gallop noises he doesn't think zebras; he thinks there's a Democrat behind a curtain, making gallop noises.
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Rabbit_Reborn
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Re: Judge Sticks It to LGBT Activists in Special Ruling for Cake Shop Owner
Reply #237 - Feb 13th, 2018 at 10:23am
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BowHunter wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 9:57am:
Every communist I know is a meat eater and a few are childhood friends whom you wouldn't dare calling pussies to their faces unless you have a death wish of sorts...

Yeah, but they're French. You likely have an entirely different understanding of these things.

BowHunter wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 9:57am:
anyway, they're all European and none of them have spent much time in American campuses. So you can claim some kind of American exception there, although it's highly dubious that you'd have anything other than your own prejudice to support that "theory" of yours.

Sure. I'm biased. But try this: Do a Google Image search on "Communist rally America" and try to find me one example of a man that isn't tubby with zero testosterone or 120 pounds with zero testosterone.

BowHunter wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 9:57am:
Personally, I hate tofu and most of my friends do so as well. However, I don't see how being a vegetarian is any indication of someone's wimpiness.

You'll have to explain that with little more than your usual nonsense.

Plenty of studies have shown that strength and power (though not endurance) are hampered by a vegan diet. Some of those effects are mitigated if a person consumes a vegetarian diet which includes eggs and dairy.

Why? Because cholesterol, despite the misinformation supported by the government, is a basic building block of testosterone.

And consuming muscle meat is where the human body gets exogenous creatine phosphate.

Can a vegan achieve power and strength? Yes. But it's difficult, and requires supplementation that I would argue makes that person not a vegan anymore.
  

Wadsworth wrote on Jun 11th, 2018 at 3:40pm:
You are awfully concerned about who gets to live.  Why is it so important to you?
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BowHunter
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Re: Judge Sticks It to LGBT Activists in Special Ruling for Cake Shop Owner
Reply #238 - Feb 13th, 2018 at 10:31am
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 10:23am:
Yeah, but they're French. You likely have an entirely different understanding of these things.

Sure. I'm biased. But try this: Do a Google Image search on "Communist rally America" and try to find me one example of a man that isn't tubby with zero testosterone or 120 pounds with zero testosterone.

Plenty of studies have shown that strength and power (though not endurance) are hampered by a vegan diet. Some of those effects are mitigated if a person consumes a vegetarian diet which includes eggs and dairy.

Why? Because cholesterol, despite the misinformation supported by the government, is a basic building block of testosterone.

And consuming muscle meat is where the human body gets exogenous creatine phosphate.

Can a vegan achieve power and strength? Yes. But it's difficult, and requires supplementation that I would argue makes that person not a vegan anymore.


Here's what I got, first try:

http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/article20223259.ece/alternates/FREE_6...

Do these people look wimpy to you? I mean more than your average student?


Honestly!!
  

When Q hears gallop noises he doesn't think zebras; he thinks there's a Democrat behind a curtain, making gallop noises.
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Rabbit_Reborn
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Re: Judge Sticks It to LGBT Activists in Special Ruling for Cake Shop Owner
Reply #239 - Feb 13th, 2018 at 10:33am
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BowHunter wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 10:31am:
Here's what I got, first try:

http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/article20223259.ece/alternates/FREE_6...

Do these people look wimpy to you? I mean more than your average student?

That's a resounding yes. Again, I feel like we may be analyzing based on entirely different standards from different sides of the pond.
  

Wadsworth wrote on Jun 11th, 2018 at 3:40pm:
You are awfully concerned about who gets to live.  Why is it so important to you?
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