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Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › Judge Sticks It to LGBT Activists in Special Ruling for Cake Shop Owner
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Judge Sticks It to LGBT Activists in Special Ruling for Cake Shop Owner (Read 6,108 times)
Rabbit_Reborn
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Re: Judge Sticks It to LGBT Activists in Special Ruling for Cake Shop Owner
Reply #250 - Feb 13th, 2018 at 10:54am
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BowHunter wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 10:47am:
No offense, but I'd really really hate to live in your ideal society.

I get it. You are at the very least sympathetic towards communism. We are on exact opposite ends of the spectrum with regard to property. I take no offense, and you can imagine that I would hate living in a society where property was controlled by the state or the collective.
  

Wadsworth wrote on Jun 11th, 2018 at 3:40pm:
You are awfully concerned about who gets to live.  Why is it so important to you?
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BowHunter
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Re: Judge Sticks It to LGBT Activists in Special Ruling for Cake Shop Owner
Reply #251 - Feb 13th, 2018 at 10:56am
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 10:53am:
Nope. That's not proportional. "Proportionality" is commonly discussed in libertarian thought. Shooting a man who walks into your store would perhaps be even more egregious than shooting a person who walked across your lawn at home, because without prior knowledge that he was not welcome, the victim could reasonably assume he could enter the store.

So you'd ask him to leave. If he refused, then the response could escalate depending on the level of refusal.

But asking him to leave what is your property is not an aggressive act. Staying on property that is not his and on which he is no welcome is heading down the path towards aggression.


What if the person is waiting for their change and you ask them to leave?

What are their/your "legitimate" options in a situation like that?
  

Queshank wrote on Oct 25th, 2018 at 9:13am:
FC,

I've been thinking about how I can respond conversationally without coming across as a total dick.

Queshank
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Re: Judge Sticks It to LGBT Activists in Special Ruling for Cake Shop Owner
Reply #252 - Feb 13th, 2018 at 11:01am
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 10:39am:
1. I don't think it's quite "bronze age".


It's pretty damn close.  7th Century BCE for Deuteronomy.  12th century is considered the late Bronze Age.  But fine.  I'll concede.  It's Iron Age philosophy that's being normalized and legitimized.  I was being insulting.

Quote:
2. I don't think any libertarian here is talking about legitimizing any viewpoint other than the idea of private property.


Yeah but you're using Iron Age thought as your champion.  (#crappity smacktheironage)

Truthfully, that forces me to hesitate before voicing full approval of your point.

Queshank
  

BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
I am not aware of any article
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Re: Judge Sticks It to LGBT Activists in Special Ruling for Cake Shop Owner
Reply #253 - Feb 13th, 2018 at 11:01am
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 10:54am:
I get it. You are at the very least sympathetic towards communism. We are on exact opposite ends of the spectrum with regard to property. I take no offense, and you can imagine that I would hate living in a society where property was controlled by the state or the collective.


So would I but that doesn't mean that I consider property as some sort of sacrosanct where you can do anything you want. I mean if you use your property to trap underage people for a lewd purpose. Surely even you would think that it is a no-no. There are a few things like that where you'd consider that someone has forfeited his right to not be disturbed by the state. We just disagree on what exactly these things are.
  

Queshank wrote on Oct 25th, 2018 at 9:13am:
FC,

I've been thinking about how I can respond conversationally without coming across as a total dick.

Queshank
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Rabbit_Reborn
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Re: Judge Sticks It to LGBT Activists in Special Ruling for Cake Shop Owner
Reply #254 - Feb 13th, 2018 at 11:03am
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BowHunter wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 10:56am:
What if the person is waiting for their change and you ask them to leave?

They could bring suit against you for breach of contract. But it would probably just be best to leave at that point, and never return, and tell everybody you know that the shop rips off patrons and demands that they leave before giving proper change.

No different than if it happened right now. What would you do if this happened right now, with current laws?

BowHunter wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 10:56am:
What are their/your "legitimate" options in a situation like that?

What are your options right now? I would leave, and never return. I would also let everybody I know what had occurred, damaging the storeowner financially. Depending on the amount lost, I might contact my lawyer. Likely not, though, as it would be hard to imagine an amount that would be worth purchasing even an hour of a lawyer's time.
  

Wadsworth wrote on Jun 11th, 2018 at 3:40pm:
You are awfully concerned about who gets to live.  Why is it so important to you?
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Rabbit_Reborn
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Re: Judge Sticks It to LGBT Activists in Special Ruling for Cake Shop Owner
Reply #255 - Feb 13th, 2018 at 11:04am
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BowHunter wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 11:01am:
So would I but that doesn't mean that I consider property as some sort of sacrosanct where you can do anything you want. I mean if you use your property to trap underage people for a lewd purpose. Surely even you would think that it is a no-no. There are a few things like that where you'd consider that someone has forfeited his right to not be disturbed by the state. We just disagree on what exactly these things are.

Right. I think it's when you make an actual aggressive act against an individual, such as the kidnapping you describe above.

The line is very clear for me.

For others, it is about what is "reasonable" or some other vague, amorphous criteria.
  

Wadsworth wrote on Jun 11th, 2018 at 3:40pm:
You are awfully concerned about who gets to live.  Why is it so important to you?
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BowHunter
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Re: Judge Sticks It to LGBT Activists in Special Ruling for Cake Shop Owner
Reply #256 - Feb 13th, 2018 at 11:05am
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Queshank wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 11:01am:
It's pretty damn close.  7th Century BCE for Deuteronomy.  12th century is considered the late Bronze Age.  But fine.  I'll concede.  It's Iron Age philosophy that's being normalized and legitimized.  I was being insulting.


Yeah but you're using Iron Age thought as your champion.  (#crappity smacktheironage)

Truthfully, that forces me to hesitate before voicing full approval of your point.

Queshank


Hello!! The iron age hasn't ended yet!!! Roll Eyes
  

Queshank wrote on Oct 25th, 2018 at 9:13am:
FC,

I've been thinking about how I can respond conversationally without coming across as a total dick.

Queshank
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BowHunter
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Re: Judge Sticks It to LGBT Activists in Special Ruling for Cake Shop Owner
Reply #257 - Feb 13th, 2018 at 11:12am
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 11:04am:
Right. I think it's when you make an actual aggressive act against an individual, such as the kidnapping you describe above.

The line is very clear for me.

For others, it is about what is "reasonable" or some other vague, amorphous criteria.


It's really hard to argue about a line when never in my life have I been asked to leave a shop, not even the few times when I went there to complain about something.
  

Queshank wrote on Oct 25th, 2018 at 9:13am:
FC,

I've been thinking about how I can respond conversationally without coming across as a total dick.

Queshank
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Rabbit_Reborn
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Re: Judge Sticks It to LGBT Activists in Special Ruling for Cake Shop Owner
Reply #258 - Feb 13th, 2018 at 11:12am
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Queshank wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 11:01am:
It's pretty damn close.  7th Century BCE for Deuteronomy.  12th century is considered the late Bronze Age.  But fine.  I'll concede.  It's Iron Age philosophy that's being normalized and legitimized.  I was being insulting.

Ah. My mistake. I actually mis-interpreted your post.

You're closer to being correct.

It's not just Bronze Age, it's likely far older than that.

Revulsion at homosexual behavior is something that can be measured; and likely has evolutionary origins, not just cultural.

We're back to discussing the open-minded, naïve, innovative tribal liberal and the closed-minded, suspicious, guardian tribal conservative. Both were needed back then, and I would argue still needed today (minus the partisan aspects of them), and we shouldn't be surprised that they both exist.
  

Wadsworth wrote on Jun 11th, 2018 at 3:40pm:
You are awfully concerned about who gets to live.  Why is it so important to you?
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Rabbit_Reborn
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Re: Judge Sticks It to LGBT Activists in Special Ruling for Cake Shop Owner
Reply #259 - Feb 13th, 2018 at 11:12am
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BowHunter wrote on Feb 13th, 2018 at 11:12am:
It's really hard to argue a line when never in my life have I been asked to leave a shop, not even the few times when I went there to complain about something.

You and your White privilege! Smiley
  

Wadsworth wrote on Jun 11th, 2018 at 3:40pm:
You are awfully concerned about who gets to live.  Why is it so important to you?
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