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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Do you Support Trade War Trump? (Read 1,908 times)
USyeah
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Re: Do you Support Trade War Trump?
Reply #70 - Mar 12th, 2018 at 10:52pm
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as I said you haven't negotiated much.

as for Congress LOL the D's aren't in much of a position to do a damn thing. oh & as for the midterms don't hold your breath, it could be detrimental to your health    Cheesy
  
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Re: Do you Support Trade War Trump?
Reply #71 - Mar 12th, 2018 at 11:31pm
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Demos wrote on Mar 8th, 2018 at 4:43pm:
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Canada and Mexico already exempted, and more exemptions likely. Seems possible that by the time these tariffs are put in place they'll be falling on very few nations. But that'll get buried over the next 15 days of news and Trump got to look tough on trade for the nostalgic voters.


It's all part of Trump's Long Con...
  

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Re: Do you Support Trade War Trump?
Reply #72 - Mar 12th, 2018 at 11:44pm
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USyeah wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 10:52pm:
as I said you haven't negotiated much.

No, but I do follow politics. And the administration started crawfishing on this days after the announcement was made.

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as for Congress LOL the D's aren't in much of a position to do a damn thing.

Um, it's the Republicans who are threatening action.
  
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Queshank
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Re: Do you Support Trade War Trump?
Reply #73 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 1:29am
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Demos wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 12:21pm:
Canada and Mexico already exempted from the tariffs with no apparent concessions in exchange. Not much of a chip.


This is only true if you read the headlines Demos.  And not the full article.

And this piece is done by someone who obviously does just that.  I'm always suspicious anymore when I read an article that says "This is what Trump said" but then doesn't quote Trump on it.  Your Source above does just that.

Here's a piece that illustrates exactly that phenomenon in effect from NPR.  Check this out Demos.  It's an interview with Wilbur Ross.  The interviewer states the following:

MARTIN: The president offered what he called flexibility by temporarily exempting Canada and Mexico from the tariffs while NAFTA talks continue

So during the interview they state what they're talking about clearly.  It's a temporary exemption while NAFTA talks continue.

Watch what happens after Wilbur Ross leaves and their editor comes in to discuss what Ross said.  (Why do they need to discuss what Ross said after Ross said it?  Fascinating.)

The argument was that the U.S. needs a really strong steel industry to support critical defense needs. However, we’ve already started making exemptions. The biggest importer of steel to the United States, Canada, is already exempted. Mexico, one of the biggest, is exempted. Others may be on the way. So that argument that you need a really strong domestic steel industry to support defense, if you have all these exemptions, how does that argument hold up?

I can see where you get the idea they're already exempted.  The news is literally saying that, despite Trump himself and administration officials saying otherwise.

CNBC - Headline reads: Trump signs steel and aluminum tariffs that exempt Canada and Mexico and leave door open to other countries

But article reads:

While there is not currently a timetable, the exemptions for Canada and Mexico "are not open-ended" and will depend on whether changes are made to NAFTA that satisfy Trump, the administration official added. The proclamations also can be amended in other ways "to preserve our national security."

"I have a feeling we're going to make a deal on NAFTA," Trump said.


Par for the course.  We're at the point now where we can literally say it's been going on for years.  And it's so relentless and unending it catches even the most careful of us. 

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BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
I am not aware of any article
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Re: Do you Support Trade War Trump?
Reply #74 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 2:24am
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Demos wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 11:44pm:
No, but I do follow politics. And the administration started crawfishing on this days after the announcement was made.

Um, it's the Republicans who are threatening action.


good for the R's, just remember they don't have a veto proof majority & with the midterms coming they will mostly tuck their tails & STFU!
  
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Re: Do you Support Trade War Trump?
Reply #75 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 11:16am
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Queshank wrote on Mar 13th, 2018 at 1:29am:
I can see where you get the idea they're already exempted.

Yeah, from the proclamation itself (issued on March 8 prior to the news reports). They're already exempted. Maybe it's temporary or maybe it's not (I'd lean towards the later), but they're already exempted. Other exemptions may be coming.
« Last Edit: Mar 13th, 2018 at 12:07pm by Demos »  
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Re: Do you Support Trade War Trump?
Reply #76 - Mar 13th, 2018 at 10:37pm
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Demos wrote on Mar 13th, 2018 at 11:16am:
Yeah, from the proclamation itself (issued on March 8 prior to the news reports). They're already exempted.


Nah ya didn't.

10.  I conclude that Canada and Mexico present a special case.  Given our shared commitment to supporting each other in addressing national security concerns, our shared commitment to addressing global excess capacity for producing steel, the physical proximity of our respective industrial bases, the robust economic integration between our countries, the export of steel articles produced in the United States to Canada and Mexico, and the close relation of the economic welfare of the United States to our national security, see 19 U.S.C. 1862(d), I have determined that the necessary and appropriate means to address the threat to the national security posed by imports of steel articles from Canada and Mexico is to continue ongoing discussions with these countries and to exempt steel articles imports from these countries from the tariff, at least at this time.  I expect that Canada and Mexico will take action to prevent transshipment of steel articles through Canada and Mexico to the United States.

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Maybe it's temporary or maybe it's not (I'd lean towards the later), but they're already exempted. Other exemptions may be coming.


I expect them to not be temporary either Demos.  I expect this to be a lot of posturing to generate support from his base in important states and counties he needs for re election.  When you've got Democrats like Lamb running on a platform of supporting Trump's tariffs and calling them overdue and pledging to work with the president to benefit blue collar workers in his district ... and said Democrat likely taking a Trump seat ... you'd have to be blind not to see the sway this issue has with voters.

And I'm sure neither one of us is bullshitted by it.  Trump will push and buffalo as much as possible on these issues.  They may or may not impact NAFTA negotiations ... which may or may not be something Trump really cares much about beyond holding onto said support.  Trump may do just as much as he needs to to walk away with enough he can exaggerate into a tremendous victory for his team and for American workers.  And leave it at that.

But that can be our personal opinions.  It shouldn't be the opinion of news anchors and journalists who are supposed to be giving us the facts.  Facts like Trump and administration officials have clearly stated repeatedly, including carving out an entire section of the official proclamation, that the exemption for Canada and Mexico for steel is temporary and contingent upon continued talks and negotiations.

That's all I give a shit about.  It's certainly more important to me than the impact these tariffs may or may not have somewhere down the road.

We have enough fake news coming from Trump, it's too bad all the media feel it's necessary to chime in with their own.  I don't mind journalists having their own opinions.  I just don't think it's really that hard to keep your opinions out of the news.  And I think the damage journalists are doing to their profession AND American society because they just can't stop themselves is more dangerous than Trump.

Queshank
  

BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
I am not aware of any article
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Re: Do you Support Trade War Trump?
Reply #77 - Mar 14th, 2018 at 10:10am
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Queshank wrote on Mar 13th, 2018 at 10:37pm:
Nah ya didn't.

See, they were already exempted in the proclamation itself. Sure, they could take them out later, but they put them in and exempted them. So, it's not an exaggeration or fake news to say Canada and Mexico have already been exempted; they have been.

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...you'd have to be blind not to see the sway this issue has with voters.

By 2020, these aren't likely to be an issue anyone is talking about. Timing makes them an issue in Pennsylvania right now.

  
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Re: Do you Support Trade War Trump?
Reply #78 - Mar 14th, 2018 at 11:22am
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Queshank wrote on Mar 13th, 2018 at 10:37pm:
you'd have to be blind not to see the sway this issue has with voters


There is a core set of voters who will always go with reactionary policy like tariffs, trade wars, execute drug dealers, etc.  Just as there is a core set of voters on the other side who will always go the other way -- free medicine, refugee rights, save the grizzlies.  But there's certainly a spectrum between the extremes, and those in the mid-ranges are watching for actual policy outcomes.

Trump is out there spewing magic words, which impress many but which raise hackles of suspicion in many more.  He doesn't have a great track record, either in office or before, of big wins.  Unless, of course, you include his knack for conning people out of money.

And to those mid-rangers who are paying attention, Trump is pretty obviously devoid of any guiding vision or philosophy.  Trade war to bring back steel?  Woo hoo!  Don't like it?  Wait a few days, he'll tweet the opposite again.
  

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Re: Do you Support Trade War Trump?
Reply #79 - Mar 14th, 2018 at 11:47am
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Demos wrote on Mar 14th, 2018 at 10:10am:
See, they were already exempted in the proclamation itself. Sure, they could take them out later, but they put them in and exempted them. So, it's not an exaggeration or fake news to say Canada and Mexico have already been exempted; they have been.


With a specific proclamation that calls them temporary and contingent upon talks.  It is fake news to insinuate they're permanent. 

I agree that they may very well be permanent.  As I said in my prior response.  But that's an opinion.  Not news and not a fact.

I'm almost nostalgic for the days when it was only Fox News we could criticize for having opinion makers on commentary shows talking about things and then the news hours talking about the things "people are talking about" on their commentary shows. That's pretty much the business model for all of our 24 hour news outlets now.

Quote:
By 2020, these aren't likely to be an issue anyone is talking about. Timing makes them an issue in Pennsylvania right now.



It was an issue in 2016 as well.  Not just now.  It was one of the reasons for Bernies support as well as Trump's.  I'm not sure it'll just go away by 2020.

Queshank
  

BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
I am not aware of any article
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