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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) How much damage will tariffs really do? (Read 851 times)
Queshank
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Re: How much damage will tariffs really do?
Reply #10 - Mar 12th, 2018 at 12:43pm
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Ulysses wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 12:37pm:
Don't believe everything you can link on the Internet!



Where did I claim that???


You are confusing Republican racism with Republican corporatism.


A handful of Rust Belt Dems support Trump's tariffs. The Democratic Party in general has resisted tariffs for decades. You are confusing these few with the rest of the party.

And Unions are not necessarily Democratic captives. I recall Richard Nixon being VERY cozy with the Teamsters, for example.


Unlike some here, I don't regard your scribblings or your links as Gospel. I prefer to think for myself.




So your protest here is that the Democrats don't support tariffs?

Regardless of what notables like Dick Gephardt and Elizabeth Warren have to say on the subject?

Your disagreement with my point is limited to unions being Republican not Democratic institutions?

That's really your takeaway?

Do you have anything to say about the actual point of the OP?  Why are tariffs imposed by the EU on our goods okay and just hunky dory ... but a suggestion we'd do the same is a disaster of epic proportions and likely to kick off a global trade war?

Queshank
  

BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
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Re: How much damage will tariffs really do?
Reply #11 - Mar 12th, 2018 at 12:43pm
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Lomelis wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 12:35pm:
No, I don't support tariffs by anyone.  But I don't agree that we should respond to tariffs with tariffs.  If those countries want to harm their own people that's on them.


Is the EU being harmed?

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BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
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Re: How much damage will tariffs really do?
Reply #12 - Mar 12th, 2018 at 12:48pm
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BTW Ulysses, I am enjoying your insistence that places like Financial Times, the Wall Street Journal, CNBC and CNN Money are "fake news."

Damn Internet amirite?

Queshank
  

BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
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Lomelis
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Re: How much damage will tariffs really do?
Reply #13 - Mar 12th, 2018 at 1:00pm
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Queshank wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 12:41pm:
I get it.  You've got valid reasons for thinking tariffs are bad.

For some reason there's people who disagree with you. 

That's the point in starting this thread.

This thread is about the lack of addressing the tariffs the world already slaps on goods.  It's a weakness in your argument Demos.

It's not me you need to convince.  That's what I'm trying to stress here.

Why are tariffs bad for us, but not bad for the EU?  How has the EU managed to avoid catastrophic job loss in their wine and cheese and champagne and food industries?  And more specifically, why haven't those overseas tariffs sparked trade wars?

Queshank



The European economy has been pretty stagnant with very little growth and the election of Trump can be seen as a response to the tariffs and "unfair" economic activities by China and the EU.

In essence they have started a trade war, the last election was a response to the rest of the world about the dumping and tariffs.

Trump was the response from the snowflakes in the rustbelt states that enough is enough.


  

Ignorant Blessings from Wads:

Wadsworth wrote on Jul 2nd, 2018 at 4:13pm:
Watched it.  A shotgun is for long ranged shooting.  That is why hunters like them.  An AR-15 is not.  That video was misleading.

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Re: How much damage will tariffs really do?
Reply #14 - Mar 12th, 2018 at 1:03pm
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Queshank wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 12:43pm:
Is the EU being harmed?

Queshank


Of course.  France, Spain, Italy, you know many of those places protecting their wine and cheese have terrible economies.  Wage growth has stagnated, unemployment is high, and there are serious movements in these countries to leave the EU.  Just like Britain.
  

Ignorant Blessings from Wads:

Wadsworth wrote on Jul 2nd, 2018 at 4:13pm:
Watched it.  A shotgun is for long ranged shooting.  That is why hunters like them.  An AR-15 is not.  That video was misleading.

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Demos
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Re: How much damage will tariffs really do?
Reply #15 - Mar 12th, 2018 at 1:07pm
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Queshank wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 12:41pm:
For some reason there's people who disagree with you.

Sure, because they think it's in their interest to implement protectionist tariffs, regardless of any evidence to the contrary. 

Quote:
This thread is about the lack of addressing the tariffs the world already slaps on goods.

We address this through trade agreements, which attempt to reduce barriers to trade, such as the TTIP. It's one of the things that we were dealing with through TPP, which we are now not a part of.

Quote:
Why are tariffs bad for us, but not bad for the EU?

Who says they're not bad for the EU? 

Even the EU argues they're bad: http://letstalktrade.eu/does-protectionism-work_en

Quote:
How has the EU managed to avoid catastrophic job loss in their wine and cheese and champagne and food industries?

The EU hasn't experienced job losses as a results of its protectionist tariffs? 

Quote:
And more specifically, why haven't those overseas tariffs sparked trade wars?

Some of these things have threatened to cause trade wars, but those are usually ended as the result of negotiations and trade agreements that reduce tariffs and other barriers to trade.
  
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Re: How much damage will tariffs really do?
Reply #16 - Mar 12th, 2018 at 2:08pm
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I don’t care if Trump’s tariffs damage or benefit us. I’m just against this action on principle. I don’t support protectionist policies.
  


President Trump turned you into a snowflake? Woman up!
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Re: How much damage will tariffs really do?
Reply #17 - Mar 12th, 2018 at 4:02pm
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Lomelis wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 1:00pm:
The European economy has been pretty stagnant with very little growth and the election of Trump can be seen as a response to the tariffs and "unfair" economic activities by China and the EU.

In essence they have started a trade war, the last election was a response to the rest of the world about the dumping and tariffs.

Trump was the response from the snowflakes in the rustbelt states that enough is enough.




So would you say that these are responsive tariffs?  Does that mean they're "defensive tariffs?"

And can stagnant growth in the European economy really be seen as due to tariffs?  Germany doesn't have stagnant growth.  They saw a 6 year high in 2017.  France is seeing growth.

So it can't ALL be due to tariffs right?  I mean obviously Greece and Italy aren't.  But can we say Greece and Italy's economic woes are due to tariffs if those same woes aren't repeating themselves across the EU?

This kind of gets at the question I'm asking in the thread.  "How much damage do tariffs do?"  Can we quantify it?

Queshank
  

BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
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Re: How much damage will tariffs really do?
Reply #18 - Mar 12th, 2018 at 4:07pm
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Lomelis wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 1:03pm:
Of course.  France, Spain, Italy, you know many of those places protecting their wine and cheese have terrible economies.  Wage growth has stagnated, unemployment is high, and there are serious movements in these countries to leave the EU.  Just like Britain.


France doesn't have a terrible economy. 

CNN says "Europe is Charging Ahead" as of January '18.

Wage growth has stagnated over the past 30 years in the US.  Is that because we have tariffs?  Or is it because the explosion in productivity has been due to computerization and automation over the past 30 years and that might be part of the reason for stagnant wage growth in France, Spain etc?

How can the European economy be growing faster than the US economy as the CNN article says above, if they have a protectionist system if protectionist systems are terrible for economies?  (Incidentally another quote from the article "France is shaping up to be a bright spot in 2018 ...could overtake Germany's GDP in the not so distant future."

(Some links there from Harvard and CNN for Ulysses to dismiss as Fake News.  This is a fun time.)

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BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
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Re: How much damage will tariffs really do?
Reply #19 - Mar 12th, 2018 at 4:10pm
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Demos wrote on Mar 12th, 2018 at 1:07pm:
Sure, because they think it's in their interest to implement protectionist tariffs, regardless of any evidence to the contrary. 

We address this through trade agreements, which attempt to reduce barriers to trade, such as the TTIP. It's one of the things that we were dealing with through TPP, which we are now not a part of.


Some more cognitive dissonance to force Ulysses to nerdrage some more since I know you've seen me share this.  It means nothing that Reich is anti TPP.  Just more evidence for the Trumpian stylings of Democrats.  I love that shit.



Quote:
Who says they're not bad for the EU? 

Even the EU argues they're bad: http://letstalktrade.eu/does-protectionism-work_en

The EU hasn't experienced job losses as a results of its protectionist tariffs? 

Some of these things have threatened to cause trade wars, but those are usually ended as the result of negotiations and trade agreements that reduce tariffs and other barriers to trade.


And the point is ... there's simply too many variables at play for one thing to be picked out as the problem.  And it's always interesting to me that economists pick the variables that mean the most to them ... and then the Democrats and Republicans pick the economists that they like the best.  I literally had one Democrat tell me he doesn't need to understand the economy he has a Nobel prize winning economist in the form of Paul Krugman to lean on.  I truly enjoyed sharing Krugman suggesting 25% tariffs on China in recent years.

Queshank
  

BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
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