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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Will Christians Give Darwin Any Credit? (Read 2,329 times)
Seawolf
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Re: Will Christians Give Darwin Any Credit?
Reply #20 - Apr 4th, 2018 at 9:07am
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Luther wrote on Apr 4th, 2018 at 6:06am:
The truth Wink

That is why I asked myself if there are accounts of the event outside of scripture.  Rome was the greatest empire of that time and the most advanced, there HAS to be evidence of Jesus and of that day he died.  I found multiple witnesses of that period that described Jesus and that day.  To me, that is astounding.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Will Christians Give Darwin Any Credit?
Reply #21 - Apr 4th, 2018 at 9:41am
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Seawolf wrote on Apr 4th, 2018 at 9:07am:
That is why I asked myself if there are accounts of the event outside of scripture.  Rome was the greatest empire of that time and the most advanced, there HAS to be evidence of Jesus and of that day he died.  I found multiple witnesses of that period that described Jesus and that day.  To me, that is astounding.


There are eyewitness accounts of leprechauns.   The fact that Ireland exists doesn't mean that leprechauns are real.. 

Eyewitness accounts are wholly unreliable.  There are still eyewitness disagreements about the 9/11 attacks and of JFK's assassination..  Eyewitness accounts from individuals 2 millennia ago can be dismissed out of hand.

As there is no real evidence, you believe this because you choose to believe it.  i.e.  Faith.   

  

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Re: Will Christians Give Darwin Any Credit?
Reply #22 - Apr 4th, 2018 at 10:34am
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Fiddler wrote on Apr 4th, 2018 at 9:41am:
There are eyewitness accounts of leprechauns.   The fact that Ireland exists doesn't mean that leprechauns are real.. 

Eyewitness accounts are wholly unreliable.  There are still eyewitness disagreements about the 9/11 attacks and of JFK's assassination..  Eyewitness accounts from individuals 2 millennia ago can be dismissed out of hand.

As there is no real evidence, you believe this because you choose to believe it.  i.e.  Faith.   



No credible scholars of antiquity, atheist or otherwise, doubt that a man named Jesus lived, had disciples, preached on mountainsides and in Temples, and was publicly crucified for it.  None.  If any says he doubts that, he is, by defnition, not credible.

Where they differ is on his divinity (wholly man and wholly God) and his resurrection.  Even believers in God the Creator differ in that regard.  Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin are counted among that number.  (They both professed "serious doubt" more than once, Franklin as late as a week or so before he died, and if you have serious doubts about something I would say that's the same as disbelief.)  Many even believe the Bible to be rife with man made error.  Thomas Jefferson was one of those.  He was even in the process of "correcting" it before he died. 

Edited to add: but you are right, faith is the foundation of belief in Jesus the Son of God.  The book even says as much.  And it tells us the source of that faith.  It's in Ephesians 2:8-9.




« Last Edit: Apr 4th, 2018 at 10:45am by EF »  

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Re: Will Christians Give Darwin Any Credit?
Reply #23 - Apr 4th, 2018 at 11:47am
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Additional opportunity for discussing post 10 in this thread is down in the science and wonders section.
  

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Re: Will Christians Give Darwin Any Credit?
Reply #24 - Apr 4th, 2018 at 12:00pm
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EF wrote on Apr 4th, 2018 at 10:34am:
No credible scholars of antiquity, atheist or otherwise, doubt that a man named Jesus lived, had disciples, preached on mountainsides and in Temples, and was publicly crucified for it.  None.  If any says he doubts that, he is, by defnition, not credible.



Fiddler wrote on Dec 24th, 2017 at 11:31pm:
Though not 'proof' as in tangible evidence.. outside of the Bible 1st century Jewish historian Flavius Josephus referes to Jesus in his book Antiquities of the Jews. 

I've said that Jesus very likely lived but the notion of his divinity is where myth begins..





EF wrote on Apr 4th, 2018 at 10:34am:
Many even believe the Bible to be rife with man made error.


That is unquestionable..

  

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Re: Will Christians Give Darwin Any Credit?
Reply #25 - Apr 4th, 2018 at 12:38pm
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I will give Darwin credit for scientific racism.
  


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Re: Will Christians Give Darwin Any Credit?
Reply #26 - Apr 4th, 2018 at 12:41pm
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Frank1 wrote on Apr 4th, 2018 at 12:38pm:
I will give Darwin credit for scientific racism.



He is as guilty as Christianity is for the American slave trade ..
  

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Re: Will Christians Give Darwin Any Credit?
Reply #27 - Apr 4th, 2018 at 5:24pm
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Fiddler wrote on Apr 4th, 2018 at 9:41am:
There are eyewitness accounts of leprechauns.   The fact that Ireland exists doesn't mean that leprechauns are real.. 

Eyewitness accounts are wholly unreliable.  There are still eyewitness disagreements about the 9/11 attacks and of JFK's assassination..  Eyewitness accounts from individuals 2 millennia ago can be dismissed out of hand.

As there is no real evidence, you believe this because you choose to believe it.  i.e.  Faith.   


Wow, your denial despite the evidence is amazing.  You have such a seriously biased view that ANYTHING that challenges it, you out and out dismiss without even an attempt to research it yourself.  Not even sure why you feel the need to even comment since your mind is made up and nothing will alter it.  Eyewitness accounts ARE used in our court system when they corroborate other testimonies.  That is what we see with historical accounts that they corroborate each other.
« Last Edit: Apr 4th, 2018 at 5:40pm by Seawolf »  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Will Christians Give Darwin Any Credit?
Reply #28 - Apr 4th, 2018 at 5:26pm
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EF wrote on Apr 4th, 2018 at 10:34am:
No credible scholars of antiquity, atheist or otherwise, doubt that a man named Jesus lived, had disciples, preached on mountainsides and in Temples, and was publicly crucified for it.  None.  If any says he doubts that, he is, by defnition, not credible.

Where they differ is on his divinity (wholly man and wholly God) and his resurrection.  Even believers in God the Creator differ in that regard.  Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin are counted among that number.  (They both professed "serious doubt" more than once, Franklin as late as a week or so before he died, and if you have serious doubts about something I would say that's the same as disbelief.)  Many even believe the Bible to be rife with man made error.  Thomas Jefferson was one of those.  He was even in the process of "correcting" it before he died. 

Edited to add: but you are right, faith is the foundation of belief in Jesus the Son of God.  The book even says as much.  And it tells us the source of that faith.  It's in Ephesians 2:8-9.





Lets not forget that Franklin and Jefferson did not have the Dead Sea scrolls to consult as we do today, as well as many of the historical artifacts recently discovered.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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EF
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Re: Will Christians Give Darwin Any Credit?
Reply #29 - Apr 4th, 2018 at 5:58pm
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Seawolf wrote on Apr 4th, 2018 at 5:26pm:
Lets not forget that Franklin and Jefferson did not have the Dead Sea scrolls to consult as we do today, as well as many of the historical artifacts recently discovered.


And it wouldn't matter if they had.  The ONLY issue they had concerned Jesus being the Son of God, and the Dead Sea scrolls don't address that.  The ONLY way a person comes to believe Jesus is the Son of God is through faith, and that faith is described in Ephesians.
  

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