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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Will Christians Give Darwin Any Credit? (Read 2,322 times)
Frank1
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Re: Will Christians Give Darwin Any Credit?
Reply #40 - Apr 7th, 2018 at 1:29pm
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Fiddler wrote on Apr 4th, 2018 at 10:07pm:
Instead Darwin said that?..  Right?..


This is what Mr. Darwin said in the Descent of Man, in accounting for 'breaks' in the 'chain' of evolution.

The great break in the organic chain between man and his nearest allies, which cannot be bridged over by any extinct or living species, has often been advanced as a grave objection to the belief that man is descended from some lower form; but this objection will not appear of much weight to those who, convinced by general reasons, believe in the general principle of evolution. Breaks incessantly occur in all parts of the series, some being wide, sharp and defined, others less so in various degrees; as between the orang and its nearest allies — between the Tarsius and the other Lemuridæ — between the elephant and in a more striking manner between the Ornithorhynchus or Echidna, and other mammals. But all these breaks depend merely on the number of related forms which have become extinct. At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace throughout the world the savage races. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes, as Professor Schaaffhausen has remarked,[270]* will no doubt be exterminated. The break will then be rendered wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilised state, as we may hope, than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as at present between the negro or Australian and the gorilla.

  


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To say homo sapiens, is to say Homo religiosus; there is no man without God. ~Frithjof Schuon
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Seawolf
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Re: Will Christians Give Darwin Any Credit?
Reply #41 - Apr 7th, 2018 at 10:53pm
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Luther wrote on Apr 7th, 2018 at 7:28am:
No, that is your belief.

So, God has control of Earthquakes, Volcano's and Hurricanes is what you're saying?

No, that is not my belief that is God's word.  I have no say in the matter nor do you.  Interesting you want to bring this up, Jesus was asked a similar question and here was his response.

Luke 13:1 Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2 Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4 Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Seawolf
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Re: Will Christians Give Darwin Any Credit?
Reply #42 - Apr 7th, 2018 at 10:56pm
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Luther wrote on Apr 7th, 2018 at 7:28am:
No, that is your belief.

Rom 3:10 As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11
    there is no one who understands;
    there is no one who seeks God.
12
All have turned away,
    they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
    not even one.”[b]
13
“Their throats are open graves;
    their tongues practice deceit.”[c]
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”[d]
14
    “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”[e]
15
“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16
    ruin and misery mark their ways,
17
and the way of peace they do not know.”[f]
18
    “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”[g]
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Luther
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Re: Will Christians Give Darwin Any Credit?
Reply #43 - Apr 9th, 2018 at 6:48am
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Seawolf wrote on Apr 7th, 2018 at 10:56pm:
Rom 3:10 As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11
    there is no one who understands;
    there is no one who seeks God.
12
All have turned away,
    they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
    not even one.”[b]
13
“Their throats are open graves;
    their tongues practice deceit.”[c]
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”[d]
14
    “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”[e]
15
“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16
    ruin and misery mark their ways,
17
and the way of peace they do not know.”[f]
18
    “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”[g]



Quote:
Rom 3:10 As it is written:


Thanks for proving my point Wink Huh Roll Eyes
Quote:

No, that is your belief.

  

All throughout our American history, world history, "ordinary people can do extraordinary things"


un·known quan·ti·ty
noun
a person or thing whose nature, value, or significance cannot be determined or is not yet known.
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Fiddler
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Re: Will Christians Give Darwin Any Credit?
Reply #44 - Apr 9th, 2018 at 9:36am
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Frank1 wrote on Apr 7th, 2018 at 1:29pm:
This is what Mr. Darwin said in the Descent of Man, in accounting for 'breaks' in the 'chain' of evolution.

The great break in the organic chain between man and his nearest allies, which cannot be bridged over by any extinct or living species, has often been advanced as a grave objection to the belief that man is descended from some lower form; but this objection will not appear of much weight to those who, convinced by general reasons, believe in the general principle of evolution. Breaks incessantly occur in all parts of the series, some being wide, sharp and defined, others less so in various degrees; as between the orang and its nearest allies — between the Tarsius and the other Lemuridæ — between the elephant and in a more striking manner between the Ornithorhynchus or Echidna, and other mammals. But all these breaks depend merely on the number of related forms which have become extinct. At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace throughout the world the savage races. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes, as Professor Schaaffhausen has remarked,[270]* will no doubt be exterminated. The break will then be rendered wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilised state, as we may hope, than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as at present between the negro or Australian and the gorilla.




And you think that^ means "Go to Africa, enslave the negro, and bring him to the New World" ..   

You are quite the contortionist Frank ..  Tell me.. Have you ever heard hoof beats that didn't make you think zebras?

  

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Re: Will Christians Give Darwin Any Credit?
Reply #45 - Apr 9th, 2018 at 10:30am
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Luther wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 6:48am:
Thanks for proving my point Wink Huh Roll Eyes

Which is?  My point is this is God's description of man's state, not mine.  It's pretty straight forward leaving no room for a different interpretation.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Luther
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Re: Will Christians Give Darwin Any Credit?
Reply #46 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 7:15am
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Seawolf wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 10:30am:
Which is?  My point is this is God's description of man's state, not mine.  It's pretty straight forward leaving no room for a different interpretation.



Quote:
God's description of man's state,


Yes,,, written by men
Quote:
It's pretty straight forward l


No, the only straight forwardness is the points I'm bringing up
  

All throughout our American history, world history, "ordinary people can do extraordinary things"


un·known quan·ti·ty
noun
a person or thing whose nature, value, or significance cannot be determined or is not yet known.
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Re: Will Christians Give Darwin Any Credit?
Reply #47 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 4:34pm
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Luther wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 7:15am:
Yes,,, written by men

No, the only straight forwardness is the points I'm bringing up

Romans 15:4
For everything that was written in the past was written for our instruction, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures, we might have hope.

2 Peter 1:20
Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture comes from the prophet's own interpretation.

2 Peter 1:21
For no prophecy was ever brought about through human initiative, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

So if you think there is fallacy in the Bible because it has been written by man then I would point you to a link to the oldest known manuscript of the book of Isaiah that you can actually compare to today's Bibles to determine if there are discrepancies.  I believe you stated you were once a Christian, which is truly sad.

2 Peter 2:20 If indeed they have escaped the corruption of the world through their knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, only to be entangled and overcome by it again, their final condition is worse than it was at first. 21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and turned away from the holy commandment passed on to them. 22 Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.”…
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Will Christians Give Darwin Any Credit?
Reply #48 - Jul 13th, 2018 at 4:59am
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Many people today are led to believe that Darwin was some great scientist who proved man evolved from apes. But this careless thinking avoids the reality that what came down to us from Darwinian assumptions had been an ancient mystical belief long before Augustine's time. Here, Augustine is speaking about the origin and diversity of humans and some myths which have come about since ancient times.

City of God: Book XVI, chapter 8, p.663 (Penguin Classics translation),

"Some years ago, but certainly in my time, a man was born in the East with a double set of upper parts, but a single set of the lower limbs. That is, he had two heads, two chests, and four arms, but only one belly and two feet, as if he were one man. And he lived long enough for the news of his case to attract many sightseers.
In fact, it would be impossible to list all the human infants very unlike those who, without any doubt, were their parents. Now it cannot be denied that these derive ultimately from that one man; and therefore the same is true of all those races which are reported to have deviated as it were, by their divergences in bodily structure, from the normal course of nature followed by the majority, or practically the whole of mankind. If these races are included in the definition of 'human', that is, if they are rational and mortal animals, it must be admitted that they trace their lineage from that same one man, the first father of all mankind. This assumes, of course, the truth of the stories about the divergent features of those races, and their great differences from one another and from us. The definition is important; for if we did not know monkeys, long tailed apes and chimpanzees are not men but animals, those natural historians who plume themselves on their collection of curiosities might pass them off on us as races of men, and get away with such nonsense."


City of God, Marcus Dods translation:

"Some years ago, quite within my own memory, a man was born in the East, double his upper, but single his lower half--having two heads, two chests, four hands, but one body and two feet like a ordinary man ; and he lived so long that many had an opportunity of seeing him. But who could enumerate all the human births that have differed widely from their ascertained parents? As, therefore, no one will deny that these are all descended from from that one man, so all the races which are reported to have diverged in bodily appearance from the usual course which nature generally or almost universally preserves, if they are embraced in that definition of man as rational and mortal animals, unquestionably trace their pedigree to that one first father of all. We are supposing these stories about various races who differ from one another and from us to be true ; but possibly they are not ; for if we were not aware that apes, and monkeys, and sphinxes are not men, but beasts, those historians would possibly describe them as races of men, and flaunt with impunity their false and vainglorious discoveries."

Charles Darwin would be the natural historian who would entertain the false theory which placed man in the same pedigree as the moneys and apes. Julian Huxley would have fun making fun of the mentally challenged as Darwin's theory allowed for that such bigotry. But real science proves that mutations at birth are all human through and through, and mentally challenged people can give birth to normal healthy children. In all cases, no human being who was born either a Siamese twin or mentally challenged is subhuman as Darwin and J.Huxley would want us to believe. And here, from 4th century Augustine, we see that long before Darwin's ignorance that human deformations were believed by pagans to be apes and monkeys, a show of mockery for those born different from other humans. Today, Darwin's ape to man theory--borrowed from ancient pagan philosophers--is used to degrade and dehumanize people so that corrupt powers will rule over the masses and strip them of all their earned income and make them slaves to a dictator of the state. Augustine mentions how absurd these people were back in his day and now we see why Augustine mentioned their absurdities.
  

"Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" (2 Cor. 3:17).
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Re: Will Christians Give Darwin Any Credit?
Reply #49 - Jul 17th, 2018 at 7:12am
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Seawolf wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 4:34pm:
Romans 15:4
For everything that was written in the past was written for our instruction, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures, we might have hope.

2 Peter 1:20
Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture comes from the prophet's own interpretation.

2 Peter 1:21
For no prophecy was ever brought about through human initiative, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

So if you think there is fallacy in the Bible because it has been written by man then I would point you to a link to the oldest known manuscript of the book of Isaiah that you can actually compare to today's Bibles to determine if there are discrepancies.  I believe you stated you were once a Christian, which is truly sad.

2 Peter 2:20 If indeed they have escaped the corruption of the world through their knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, only to be entangled and overcome by it again, their final condition is worse than it was at first. 21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and turned away from the holy commandment passed on to them. 22 Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.”…



You don't know it Seawolf but you sir, had just proven my point Wink


Quote:
Yes,,, written by men
  

All throughout our American history, world history, "ordinary people can do extraordinary things"


un·known quan·ti·ty
noun
a person or thing whose nature, value, or significance cannot be determined or is not yet known.
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