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Vypr
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Re: The Impeach Trump End Game
Reply #30 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 11:31am
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crepe05 wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 10:54am:
What are those "everything I have seen over the last two years" that make you "100% confident Trump is extremely corrupt"?

I have literally posted hundreds of threads on this, ranging from business corruption, to pay to play, conspiracy regarding the election, etc. You rarely if ever show up. When you do pop in you rarely directly comment on the points raised other than to post one of your canned denials.
  

RWB wrote on Nov 15th, 2017 at 9:32am:
Trump's an idiot everyone knows that

RWB wrote on Jan 27th, 2018 at 2:30pm:
I believe without a doubt Donald Trump is a sexual harasser
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Harrys Sockpuppet4335
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Re: The Impeach Trump End Game
Reply #31 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 11:37am
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Vypr wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 11:31am:
I have literally posted hundreds of threads on this, ranging from business corruption, to pay to play, conspiracy regarding the election, etc. You rarely if ever show up. When you do pop in you rarely directly comment on the points raised other than to post one of your canned denials. 


You have, literally, posted hundreds of nonsense posts about "this."

Doing so is why you're here.
  

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Vypr
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Re: The Impeach Trump End Game
Reply #32 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 11:41am
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Harrys Sockpuppet4335 wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 11:37am:
You have, literally, posted hundreds of nonsense posts about "this."

Doing so is why you're here.

At least I post something relevant. Unlike you and bAnal Bert using the political forum as a chat tool to kill threads you don't like.
  

RWB wrote on Nov 15th, 2017 at 9:32am:
Trump's an idiot everyone knows that

RWB wrote on Jan 27th, 2018 at 2:30pm:
I believe without a doubt Donald Trump is a sexual harasser
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Harrys Sockpuppet4335
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Re: The Impeach Trump End Game
Reply #33 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 11:52am
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Vypr wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 11:41am:
At least I post something relevant. Unlike you and bAnal Bert using the political forum as a chat tool to kill threads you don't like. 


LNF is a small place. You take up space for no reason. You influence no one.
  

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forgotten centrist
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Re: The Impeach Trump End Game
Reply #34 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 12:34pm
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Q, you're taking on the tone of a strawman.  Impeachment isn't the only end-game here.  It's an almost insurmountable barrier, by design.  But there are many other implications of the current course of events that are entirely realistic.

The democrats are looking like they'll take the house.  They might even take the senate, but not with enough to prevail in a post-impeachment senate trial.  But they WILL take over all the committees, including all the subpoena powers and investigatory channels that come with those chairmanships.

Trump's taxes, for example, will certainly be accessible to them (as they are to Mueller today).  So will Deutschebank transaction histories.  And let's not forget how republicans set the precedent for withholding SCOTUS nominees until they win the white house.

With the flight of republican leadership already underway, resistance will be scattered.  Moreover, as legal exposure for Trump increases and new shenanigans see daylight, republican moderates will find the political cover to oppose Trump themselves.  Indeed, at a certain point it has already become impossible for republican centrists to accept Trump's embrace.

It's not all about impeachment.  Things might get hot enough for Trump that what's left of his party will negotiate a resignation, to spare him (and his family business) from further public scrutiny.  Just as happened with Nixon.
  

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Queshank
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Re: The Impeach Trump End Game
Reply #35 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 12:43pm
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forgotten centrist wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 12:34pm:
Q, you're taking on the tone of a strawman.  Impeachment isn't the only end-game here.  It's an almost insurmountable barrier, by design.  But there are many other implications of the current course of events that are entirely realistic.

The democrats are looking like they'll take the house.  They might even take the senate, but not with enough to prevail in a post-impeachment senate trial.  But they WILL take over all the committees, including all the subpoena powers and investigatory channels that come with those chairmanships.

Trump's taxes, for example, will certainly be accessible to them (as they are to Mueller today).  So will Deutschebank transaction histories.  And let's not forget how republicans set the precedent for withholding SCOTUS nominees until they win the white house.

With the flight of republican leadership already underway, resistance will be scattered.  Moreover, as legal exposure for Trump increases and new shenanigans see daylight, republican moderates will find the political cover to oppose Trump themselves.  Indeed, at a certain point it has already become impossible for republican centrists to accept Trump's embrace.

It's not all about impeachment.  Things might get hot enough for Trump that what's left of his party will negotiate a resignation, to spare him (and his family business) from further public scrutiny.  Just as happened with Nixon.


How is that a straw man?

You're basically agreeing with me completely.

However for things to get "hot enough" for Trump that the party will negotiate a resignation ... you would have to have a Republican Party that stands wholly independent and separate from Trump.  Trump has been making moves to ensure that's not the case.  I've been providing commentary to that effect as I've watched it happen for the past couple of years.  Trump rules the Republican Party.

As I said now and I've said since the beginning, this is all going to be about elections.  And because the Democrats keep hammering this as if it's a partisan issue, they are cheapening the legitimacy of the investigation by making it look like a partisan investigation.  The Democrats and the media consistently make it more difficult for what few moderate Republicans that exist to find cover.  Because they have to find cover behind the Democrats and the media.  And the Democrats and the media are alienating Trumps base ... the Republican rank and file.  They can't find cover from the Republican rank and file by hiding behind the Democrats and the media ... who have completely claimed this issue as their own.

This is not the same situation as happened with Nixon.  It's not the same environment where the evening news is trusted by the people and public opinion turned on Nixon due to revelations.  And more importantly, Trump is NOT Richard M. Nixon. 

I will repeat again. 

Queshank wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 10:04am:
Our news outlets need to gossip less and news more.  They need to just report on developments as they occur.  Not go all in on shit like this Comey book and the "salacious" gossip it contains.  And not spend hours every evening gossiping about what *might* be contained in Cohen's files. 

Because by the time we actually know what's in them, it's quite possible the American people won't give a shit anymore.


Queshank
  

BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
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Re: The Impeach Trump End Game
Reply #36 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 1:06pm
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Queshank wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 12:43pm:
How is that a straw man?

You're basically agreeing with me completely.

However for things to get "hot enough" for Trump that the party will negotiate a resignation ... you would have to have a Republican Party that stands wholly independent and separate from Trump.  Trump has been making moves to ensure that's not the case.  I've been providing commentary to that effect as I've watched it happen for the past couple of years.  Trump rules the Republican Party.

As I said now and I've said since the beginning, this is all going to be about elections.  And because the Democrats keep hammering this as if it's a partisan issue, they are cheapening the legitimacy of the investigation by making it look like a partisan investigation.  The Democrats and the media consistently make it more difficult for what few moderate Republicans that exist to find cover.  Because they have to find cover behind the Democrats and the media.  And the Democrats and the media are alienating Trumps base ... the Republican rank and file.  They can't find cover from the Republican rank and file by hiding behind the Democrats and the media ... who have completely claimed this issue as their own.

This is not the same situation as happened with Nixon.  It's not the same environment where the evening news is trusted by the people and public opinion turned on Nixon due to revelations.  And more importantly, Trump is NOT Richard M. Nixon. 

I will repeat again. 


Queshank


I agree that the news media (as embodied by CNN, MSNBC, Fox, right-wing radio, and certain centralized networks like Sinclair) are entirely too gossipy and not nearly newsy enough.  It's kind of horrifying. 

I don't think the same problem extends to the NY Times, Wash Post, WSJ, etc, because they generally DO report a lot of actual news every day.  But the general public doesn't read much, and they either watch CNN/Fox or they look to self-affirmative sites like Salon or Breitbart.

The strawman here is that the democrats are focused on impeachment.  There are only a few who've stepped into that rabbit hole, and many who've warned against it.  Some democrats, indeed, have started getting wise to Napolean's dictum -- never interfere with an enemy who's in the process of destroying himself.

They don't need impeachment to put the screws on Trump.  They DO need the chairmanships, and it looks like Trump is doing all he can to make sure they get them.
  

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Queshank
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Re: The Impeach Trump End Game
Reply #37 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 1:53pm
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forgotten centrist wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 1:06pm:
I agree that the news media (as embodied by CNN, MSNBC, Fox, right-wing radio, and certain centralized networks like Sinclair) are entirely too gossipy and not nearly newsy enough.  It's kind of horrifying. 

I don't think the same problem extends to the NY Times, Wash Post, WSJ, etc, because they generally DO report a lot of actual news every day.  But the general public doesn't read much, and they either watch CNN/Fox or they look to self-affirmative sites like Salon or Breitbart.


I agree, I think the NY Times and Washington Post have their problems in dealing with Trump and fighting their biases.  But they do a much better job at striving for objectivity than the television outlets in their fight for ratings.

Quote:
The strawman here is that the democrats are focused on impeachment.  There are only a few who've stepped into that rabbit hole, and many who've warned against it.  Some democrats, indeed, have started getting wise to Napolean's dictum -- never interfere with an enemy who's in the process of destroying himself.

They don't need impeachment to put the screws on Trump.  They DO need the chairmanships, and it looks like Trump is doing all he can to make sure they get them.


Yes, but the Democratic rank and file are definitely focused on impeachment.  It's hardly a strawman.  Articles of impeachment were introduced in the House just a bare 5 months ago in November. 

And the rank and file is definitely trying to push the Democratic Party to go in those directions for the November elections.

Even the New York Times reported just yesterday that the Republicans have seized on the impeachment mutterings from rank and file Democrats as a means of mobilizing their own base. 

But other more progressive figures see impeachment as a rallying cry of their own to galvanize the left’s anti-Trump base.

And let's not forget about Tom Steyer, Democratic "mega donor": Tom Steyer wants Trump impeached, and he’s mad that many Democrats don’t and his attempts to shame Democrats into supporting impeachment.

For the past year and a half, California has been driving the Democratic impulses. 

You can't dismiss it as a strawman when 66 House Democrats voted for a resolution of impeachment a scant two months ago.  https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/115-2018/h35

As things heat up in the investigation, and more revelations surface regarding the Cohen raid, do you think it's more or likely that the Democratic base ... rabid as they've been the past two years ... will push harder for impeachment?  Or move away from that?

I'm betting on push harder.  Hence this thread trying to illustrate the foolishness of that approach.

Queshank
  

BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
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