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The Last Jedi - Why do people like this crap? (Spoilers)
Apr 15th, 2018 at 2:58pm
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I watched it last night. 

Boring and just plain clunky as hell in a lot of spots. 

It has 91% positive rating on rotten tomatoes.  And I honestly don't know why.  I would have given it a negative review for such incredibly bad plotlines.  Are the positive reviews just because of Star Wars fanboydom?  I'm a Star Wars fanboy.  But not so much that I can excuse bad screenplays.

First, I don't understand how the victorious rebel alliance from the 6th movie became 400 remaining "resistance" members on the run from a dominant Empire 2.0.  That's just not made clear in this new series IMO (I'm including the Force Awakens movie as well).  Not just a dominant Empire 2.0 ... but so dominant they have Star Destroyers far superior to the Empire 1.0's star destroyers.

Second, the entire plotline is about a light cruiser that can go fast enough to get out of range of the strike craft from the Star destroyers ... because the Star Destroyers can't catch up ... but not so fast that they can ever get out of range of the Star Destroyer's endless barrage.  That's the whole movie.  This bizarre recreation of the movie "Speed" in space.

Third, what was that whole Leia the Superhero waking up in outer space and flying back to the ship's airlock about?  It looked like a scene cropped from "The Green Lantern."

Fourth, half of the movie is a completely useless side quest, that destroys the entire plan of the vice admiral, which could have been avoided by the vice admiral simply telling people she's not going to let them all die, she has a plan to escape.  Is that really what admirals do?  Push their underlings to the point of mutiny by not telling them what the strategy is? 

Fifth, Finn literally tries to sacrifice himself to blow up the huge cannon that's going to kill all of the resistance members, and Rose blows her own ship to run into him and almost kills herself to save him ... ensuring that the huge cannon is going to blow up the door to where the "Resistance" is taking shelter.  What the crappity smack was that about?  That was literally the dumbest thing in any movie I've seen recently.  And not to mention they're then 15 feet in front of the entire Empire raiding force, but that's cool.  They're fine.  Not just fine but have time for Rose to have a death scene of sorts where she tells him "We're going to win this by saving what we love, not by sacrificing ourselves."  When she just got done sacrificing herself to save what she loves, by stopping Finn from sacrificing himself to save what HE loves ....

Sixth, everything about Luke Skywalker and how Ben Solo became Kylo Ren is implausible and unbelievable.  If you're going to make a 2 1/2 hour long movie that pivots on this entire concept, maybe don't give it 30 seconds of explanation.  Maybe skip the whole irrelevant Casino Royale sideplot that seems like an excuse to get Benicio del Toro into the movie and serves no other purpose and expand on that a little bit.

The whole movie was just ... second rate at best.  I had to force myself to watch the whole thing.  Maybe it's because I rented it and watched it on my big screen plasma instead of in the movie theatre?

Queshank
  

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Re: The Last Jedi - Why do people like this crap? (Spoilers)
Reply #1 - Apr 15th, 2018 at 3:38pm
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Queshank wrote on Apr 15th, 2018 at 2:58pm:
I watched it last night. 

Boring and just plain clunky as hell in a lot of spots. 

It has 91% positive rating on rotten tomatoes.  And I honestly don't know why.  I would have given it a negative review for such incredibly bad plotlines.  Are the positive reviews just because of Star Wars fanboydom?  I'm a Star Wars fanboy.  But not so much that I can excuse bad screenplays.

First, I don't understand how the victorious rebel alliance from the 6th movie became 400 remaining "resistance" members on the run from a dominant Empire 2.0.  That's just not made clear in this new series IMO (I'm including the Force Awakens movie as well).  Not just a dominant Empire 2.0 ... but so dominant they have Star Destroyers far superior to the Empire 1.0's star destroyers.

Second, the entire plotline is about a light cruiser that can go fast enough to get out of range of the strike craft from the Star destroyers ... because the Star Destroyers can't catch up ... but not so fast that they can ever get out of range of the Star Destroyer's endless barrage.  That's the whole movie.  This bizarre recreation of the movie "Speed" in space.

Third, what was that whole Leia the Superhero waking up in outer space and flying back to the ship's airlock about?  It looked like a scene cropped from "The Green Lantern."

Fourth, half of the movie is a completely useless side quest, that destroys the entire plan of the vice admiral, which could have been avoided by the vice admiral simply telling people she's not going to let them all die, she has a plan to escape.  Is that really what admirals do?  Push their underlings to the point of mutiny by not telling them what the strategy is? 

Fifth, Finn literally tries to sacrifice himself to blow up the huge cannon that's going to kill all of the resistance members, and Rose blows her own ship to run into him and almost kills herself to save him ... ensuring that the huge cannon is going to blow up the door to where the "Resistance" is taking shelter.  What the crappity smack was that about?  That was literally the dumbest thing in any movie I've seen recently.  And not to mention they're then 15 feet in front of the entire Empire raiding force, but that's cool.  They're fine.  Not just fine but have time for Rose to have a death scene of sorts where she tells him "We're going to win this by saving what we love, not by sacrificing ourselves."  When she just got done sacrificing herself to save what she loves, by stopping Finn from sacrificing himself to save what HE loves ....

Sixth, everything about Luke Skywalker and how Ben Solo became Kylo Ren is implausible and unbelievable.  If you're going to make a 2 1/2 hour long movie that pivots on this entire concept, maybe don't give it 30 seconds of explanation.  Maybe skip the whole irrelevant Casino Royale sideplot that seems like an excuse to get Benicio del Toro into the movie and serves no other purpose and expand on that a little bit.


1. I understand your point, but it's quite plausible that the rebellion fell apart, failed to stay united, while the remnants of the empire (which was a lot more than just the death star blown up off of Endor) regrouped, found a new leader, and started dominating again 30 years later. It's not unknown in our world that a dominant world power is battled and defeated only to emerge less than 20 years later as a dominant military force again.

2. Just get past this. It's not important. Implausible? Sure. But these are vast distances, so pretend that the light cruiser was going a little bit faster than the star destroyers, but at such a slow rate that it didn't really matter.

3. Worst decision made by a serious movie franchise in some time. The flying Leia was such a terrible idea. I couldn't believe it when I was in the theater. I literally felt like I was being slapped by Mickey Mouse, and then kicked in the jimmies.

4. Meh. I didn't really mind the sidequests. It does remind me of a part that I hated. When they "called" that little gremlin that had Luke's saber in episode 7? And she's taking the call, but she's fighting and there are laser blasts going off and it's supposed to be funny? I hated that. I also hated Poe Dameron's little exchange with the Star Destroyer in the beginning, when he basically broke the 4th wall and turned it into a bit of a 2000s Verizon commercial (maybe T-Mobile? I don't remember). He all but said "Can you hear me now?" Hated that too.

5. Yup. Didn't make sense. I was so confused what the point of that was. "I sacrificed myself to save you, because you shouldn't sacrifice yourself to save others." WTF are you talking about? In the end, if she's that stupid, probably best that she dies instead of the absurdly capable Finn. He's more important.

6. I didn't find this a problem.

Overall, I really enjoyed watching this movie.

My biggest problem, outside of Leia flying, was the issue that has been bugging me since I watched it months ago. The actual event was stunning to watch. I loved it. It was the use of hyperspace as a weapon. It looked amazing and the silence was exceptional.

But you see where I'm going, right? A non-warship can cause that much damage? Doesn't this change everything? Based on the damage I saw, shouldn't the death star have not really been that big of a deal? They can't just change everything, unless this vice admiral is the first to think of it? 10,000 years in?
  

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Re: The Last Jedi - Why do people like this crap? (Spoilers)
Reply #2 - Apr 15th, 2018 at 4:48pm
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Queshank wrote on Apr 15th, 2018 at 2:58pm:
I watched it last night. 

Boring and just plain clunky as hell in a lot of spots. 
...
Queshank


That's how I feel about the whole "heptalogy".
  

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Re: The Last Jedi - Why do people like this crap? (Spoilers)
Reply #3 - Apr 15th, 2018 at 7:45pm
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Calling it crap was just being deliberately confrontational.  It's at best simply a meh film. "Crap" is harsh.  But "meh" is why the 91% positive reviews seem so out of whack.  I could see maybe 55%. 

Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Apr 15th, 2018 at 3:38pm:
1. I understand your point, but it's quite plausible that the rebellion fell apart, failed to stay united, while the remnants of the empire (which was a lot more than just the death star blown up off of Endor) regrouped, found a new leader, and started dominating again 30 years later. It's not unknown in our world that a dominant world power is battled and defeated only to emerge less than 20 years later as a dominant military force again.


Well, sure.  But remember the "Rebellion" was always simply the true government of the area.   But fine.  I can see the rational.  It's pretty hard to justify continuing the series if there isn't some kind of conflict.  So I can forgive them overlooking this.

Quote:
2. Just get past this. It's not important. Implausible? Sure. But these are vast distances, so pretend that the light cruiser was going a little bit faster than the star destroyers, but at such a slow rate that it didn't really matter.


No.  This I will not get past.

This isn't important?  It's literally the plot of the entire movie.  How could it not be important?  Everything else in the movie is based on it.  It's the most important part of the movie!

Quote:
3. Worst decision made by a serious movie franchise in some time. The flying Leia was such a terrible idea. I couldn't believe it when I was in the theater. I literally felt like I was being slapped by Mickey Mouse, and then kicked in the jimmies.


Well at least here we agree.  I get that they wanted to show the hesitancy for Kylo Ren killing his mom ... too.  And then his having to deal with thinking she's dead when the other TIE fighters drop the bombs he choked on.  But it was just a weird and completely out of place scene.  I specifically referenced "The Green Lantern" because it did look like it was cropped out and interposed.  It was just way out of place.

Quote:
4. Meh. I didn't really mind the sidequests. It does remind me of a part that I hated. When they "called" that little gremlin that had Luke's saber in episode 7? And she's taking the call, but she's fighting and there are laser blasts going off and it's supposed to be funny? I hated that. I also hated Poe Dameron's little exchange with the Star Destroyer in the beginning, when he basically broke the 4th wall and turned it into a bit of a 2000s Verizon commercial (maybe T-Mobile? I don't remember). He all but said "Can you hear me now?" Hated that too.


The Hug/Huz thing was funny for the first few minutes but it got old.  And the call to the little gremlin.  The Empire 2.0 is right there.  Right there.  They can't intercept transmissions?  But the whole side quest was a good chunk of the movie.  And it was just so worthless on 3 different levels.  1- It's only function was to introduce Benicio del Toro's odd and hastily slapped together character.  2- Because it actually destroyed the plans of the admiral.  3- The admiral literally drove her crew to mutiny by refusing to tell them the reason why they were fueling the transports.  And another thing.  Does an admiral really wear a sleek evening gown?

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5. Yup. Didn't make sense. I was so confused what the point of that was. "I sacrificed myself to save you, because you shouldn't sacrifice yourself to save others." WTF are you talking about? In the end, if she's that stupid, probably best that she dies instead of the absurdly capable Finn. He's more important.

6. I didn't find this a problem.


Ben Solo was driven to the dark side all because he woke up in the middle of the night to find his master, uncle and family friend standing over him with a lightsaber ... and instead of responding to "Wait, Ben!" he attacks, slaughters half the students and burns down the Jedi Temple ... and then goes on to kill his father.

And you don't see a problem?  More than the plot of this movie, it's the plotline driving all 3 of the new trilogy movies.  And that's how much polish they gave it.

Quote:
Overall, I really enjoyed watching this movie.

But you see where I'm going, right? A non-warship can cause that much damage? Doesn't this change everything? Based on the damage I saw, shouldn't the death star have not really been that big of a deal? They can't just change everything, unless this vice admiral is the first to think of it? 10,000 years in?


The hyperspace weapon was amazing.  The director deserves kudos for how he put that together and the aesthetic choices made.  But it's worth pointing out the death star was much, much bigger than that star destroyer?

Overall I didn't enjoy the movie.  Because I'm a fanboy I forced myself to watch it all. The writing and the story seemed like the writers had targets they had to hit.  (Find a way to reboot Lando Calrissian!)  So they were writing to hit the targets instead of writing a coherent story.

I'm still gonna watch every one of them.  But I've really been meh about these new movies so far.  And I actually thought this one was the worst of the 3 so far.

Queshank
« Last Edit: Apr 15th, 2018 at 7:50pm by Queshank »  

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Re: The Last Jedi - Why do people like this crap? (Spoilers)
Reply #4 - Apr 15th, 2018 at 8:13pm
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Queshank wrote on Apr 15th, 2018 at 7:45pm:
This isn't important?  It's literally the plot of the entire movie.  How could it not be important?  Everything else in the movie is based on it.  It's the most important part of the movie!

Sure, and in a bizarre coincidence, the light cruiser was low on hyperspace fuel and could only travel so fast, while being approximately the same max speed of the star destroyers in pursuit. It's fine.

Queshank wrote on Apr 15th, 2018 at 7:45pm:
But the whole side quest was a good chunk of the movie.  And it was just so worthless on 3 different levels.

I think Star Wars has little side quests that are fairly useless. "This is no cave!" is just a fun little thing with no real purpose. They get to play with special effects and have some comedic moments.

I think Benicio del Toro could be representative of what's to come. DJ "Don't Join" Del Toro is emblematic of where they're taking this universe, which in my opinion is away from the black-and-white Sith v Jedi paradigm. There will be shades of gray. I'm not sure we've seen the last of DJ, and he didn't bother me nearly as much as he did some others.

Queshank wrote on Apr 15th, 2018 at 7:45pm:
3- The admiral literally drove her crew to mutiny by refusing to tell them the reason why they were fueling the transports.

This was s**t, the more I think about it. You're right. There was no reason to keep it a secret. Was this the best time to test Poe's ability to follow orders unquestioningly? Were they scared they had spies on board? I don't think there's a plausible reason for it.

Queshank wrote on Apr 15th, 2018 at 7:45pm:
Does an admiral really wear a sleek evening gown?

That was weird. I thought they would explain it that she had had a classy date before all this went down and didn't have time to change. But in the first SW, Ep 4, wasn't the weirdo lady who seemed to be in charge with ADM Ackbar also wearing a weird evening gown? Maybe that's their uniform for female military leaders on that planet. Could it at least be consistent?

...

I just looked it up. Mon Mothma. Not as sleek as this Vice Admiral's gown, but pretty fancy.

Queshank wrote on Apr 15th, 2018 at 7:45pm:
Ben Solo was driven to the dark side all because he woke up in the middle of the night to find his master, uncle and family friend standing over him with a lightsaber ... and instead of responding to "Wait, Ben!" he attacks, slaughters half the students and burns down the Jedi Temple ... and then goes on to kill his father.

I think there was more than that, wasn't there? Didn't Luke sense the darkness within Ben? Wasn't that heavily implied if not outright spoken? I just saw it as seeing Luke with the lightsaber pushed Ben over the edge. It's possible I just read into it because that's what I wanted.

Queshank wrote on Apr 15th, 2018 at 7:45pm:
The hyperspace weapon was amazing.  The director deserves kudos for how he put that together and the aesthetic choices made.  But it's worth pointing out the death star was much, much bigger than that star destroyer?

Sure. But if the death star is just decimating an entire fleet (like in Ep 6), then just fling a few empty cruisers at it and at least knock out some of the weapons systems. Cause some havoc. Create some ships that are nothing more than giant battering rams to bring a little chaos into the mix. Certainly you'd poke some massive holes in that thing.

I'm thinking like a terrorist right now, aren't I?

But that brings me to another point. Did the cruiser in Episode 8 not have one single droid that could have piloted that ship into the star destroyer? Not one? C'mon. But I guess she wanted to sacrifice her life for the rebellion, which would have pissed off that Asian girl had she been aware.

Queshank wrote on Apr 15th, 2018 at 7:45pm:
I'm still gonna watch every one of them.  But I've really been meh about these new movies so far.  And I actually thought this one was the worst of the 3 so far.

I really, really liked Rogue One, which makes me very optimistic about the future of this franchise once they get past all of these old characters that people have too much of a nostalgic attachment to. They can branch out and make it new again.
  

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Re: The Last Jedi - Why do people like this crap? (Spoilers)
Reply #5 - Apr 15th, 2018 at 9:31pm
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Apr 15th, 2018 at 8:13pm:
Sure, and in a bizarre coincidence, the light cruiser was low on hyperspace fuel and could only travel so fast, while being approximately the same max speed of the star destroyers in pursuit. It's fine.


NO!  Get thee behind me with your forked tongue!

At one point they show a graphic of the tracking device on the main destroyer.  It has a cone radius in front of it.  They can't speed up and get out of range of the tracking device then jump to hyperspace?  I get that they only have enough fuel for one more hyperspace jump.  But there's a lot of room for debate between "just enough fuel for one more hyperspace jump" and enough room for two hyperspace jumps.

The Empire 2.0 can't call in a faster moving ship to hyperspace to their area and catch up to the rebel cruiser?  Or other star destroyers to jump in front of the rebel cruiser and block their path? 

Quote:
I think Star Wars has little side quests that are fairly useless. "This is no cave!" is just a fun little thing with no real purpose. They get to play with special effects and have some comedic moments.


Sure but this one is a side quest launched by a failing from the admiral to inform people why they're "committing suicide" by fueling up the transports and abandoning ship.  That's the whole reason why they mutiny and launch this side quest ... which ends up ruining the entire strategy.  And it takes up a significant part of the screen time (Helping push it to 2 1/2 hours).  AND they treat it like it's the main plot.  Not a side quest.  And then it just turns out to be a side quest.

Quote:
I think Benicio del Toro could be representative of what's to come. DJ "Don't Join" Del Toro is emblematic of where they're taking this universe, which in my opinion is away from the black-and-white Sith v Jedi paradigm. There will be shades of gray. I'm not sure we've seen the last of DJ, and he didn't bother me nearly as much as he did some others.


I do too.  I just think there were better ways they could introduce Lando Calrissian 2.0.

Quote:
That was weird. I thought they would explain it that she had had a classy date before all this went down and didn't have time to change. But in the first SW, Ep 4, wasn't the weirdo lady who seemed to be in charge with ADM Ackbar also wearing a weird evening gown? Maybe that's their uniform for female military leaders on that planet. Could it at least be consistent?


I think I'm just bitching about how attractive she was in it.  But Mon Mothma was in a senatorial robe (toga) as appropriate for the Republic being coopted by the Empire. 

Not a sleek, silky nightie. 

Quote:
I think there was more than that, wasn't there? Didn't Luke sense the darkness within Ben? Wasn't that heavily implied if not outright spoken? I just saw it as seeing Luke with the lightsaber pushed Ben over the edge. It's possible I just read into it because that's what I wanted.


Okay.  But it's a major plot point of the entire trilogy.  They couldn't expand on it more than 30 seconds?  Show some of the things that made Luke see some of the dark side growing?  They spent 3 whole movies showing Vader move towards the dark side.  He had a storyline showing him slaughtering an entire village of Tusken raiders who killed his mother.  But Ben Solo was such a little whiny bitch he needed very little prompting?  Just "Wait, Ben no!" and he's off slaughtering his schoolmates and relatives?  I dunno.

Mark Hamill was always a clumsy actor.  I always forgave him for it in the first few movies.  It could be I'm just older now and less forgiving, and he simply couldn't pull it off.

Quote:
Sure. But if the death star is just decimating an entire fleet (like in Ep 6), then just fling a few empty cruisers at it and at least knock out some of the weapons systems. Cause some havoc. Create some ships that are nothing more than giant battering rams to bring a little chaos into the mix. Certainly you'd poke some massive holes in that thing.

I'm thinking like a terrorist right now, aren't I?


For arguments sake, the slinky vice admiral was driven to desperation to save the last of the resistance.  Remember the rebel alliance is down to 400 people in the entire galaxy at this point.  Somehow. 

With the death star it was an entire rebellion with hidden bases scattered all over the galaxy.  There wasn't the same sense of desperation.  They weren't Japan needing to resort to kamikaze pilots.  They were Robin Hood and his merry men challenging Prince John and England.

Quote:
But that brings me to another point. Did the cruiser in Episode 8 not have one single droid that could have piloted that ship into the star destroyer? Not one? C'mon. But I guess she wanted to sacrifice her life for the rebellion, which would have pissed off that Asian girl had she been aware.


Or just have developed autopilot technology like a modern Boeing 747?  Or hell even put a brick on the gas pedal and tied the steering wheel to a console?

Quote:
I really, really liked Rogue One, which makes me very optimistic about the future of this franchise once they get past all of these old characters that people have too much of a nostalgic attachment to. They can branch out and make it new again.


That's probably an important observation.  Maybe I'm just channeling my inner 7 year old and being pissy.

Queshank
  

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Re: The Last Jedi - Why do people like this crap? (Spoilers)
Reply #6 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 4:29am
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Maybe this really is the LAST Jedi...
  

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Re: The Last Jedi - Why do people like this crap? (Spoilers)
Reply #7 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 9:16am
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I saw it in the theater and would also give it a "meh." 
The Star Wars series just seem to rehash and recycle the
same basic plots.
I've always been more of a Trekie dude.
  

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Re: The Last Jedi - Why do people like this crap? (Spoilers)
Reply #8 - Apr 23rd, 2018 at 4:46pm
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How can people like it? Maybe because they like joy? Maybe because they aren't uncultured swine!?!?!

(I'm kidding).

I was initially hesitant to post here because there's no objective way to prove this is a good movie. I mean, it's all opinion and sometimes people on LNF get a little worked up if you offer an opinion without proof, which of course is the only way to offer an opinion and, when dealing with something that has a huge fan base, people can get a little crazy.

But what the heck, here we go. As long as we all admit I'm not saying you're objectively wrong (I'm only thinking it) we should be OK.

Queshank wrote on Apr 15th, 2018 at 2:58pm:
I  I'm a Star Wars fanboy.  But not so much that I can excuse bad screenplays.//quote]

Actually, this is kind of funny, because the general consensus has been that the "fanboys" are the ones who hate it, but that probably depends on your definition of "famboy."

[quote]First, I don't understand how the victorious rebel alliance from the 6th movie became 400 remaining "resistance" members on the run from a dominant Empire 2.0.  That's just not made clear in this new series IMO (I'm including the Force Awakens movie as well).  Not just a dominant Empire 2.0 ... but so dominant they have Star Destroyers far superior to the Empire 1.0's star destroyers.


This is because it mostly doesn't matter. The backstory in the OT was unknown for 16 years after ROTJ wrapped up. It didn't matter and when it was finally explained...well, let's just say it was explained with mixed reviews.

However, the severe drop in numbers happened during TFA when the capitol planet was destroyed. That killed off a bunch of them and scared off most of the rest, which was the original theory behind the first Death Star ("Fear will keep the local systems in line.")

Quote:
Second, the entire plotline is about a light cruiser that can go fast enough to get out of range of the strike craft from the Star destroyers ... because the Star Destroyers can't catch up ... but not so fast that they can ever get out of range of the Star Destroyer's endless barrage.  That's the whole movie.  This bizarre recreation of the movie "Speed" in space.


Two things on this:

A. The SW Franchise has a tough job. There have been 9 episodes now. Trying to come up with something new enough to be interesting without breaking established cannon is incredibly difficult. Personally, I liked the slow chase, mostly because...

B. Another SW tradition is borrowing heavily from other genres and mashing it all together. We've seen it with all of the following:

space sci-fi, high fantasy, American Western, film noir, World War II War Movies, swashbucklers, and biblical epics.

I would go so far as to say this kind of pastiche/genre mashing is a fundamental part of what makes Star Wars Star Wars.

Now they added the looming ship chase from pirate movies (something that was parodied a bit in The Princess Bride).  Personally, I loved it. I thought it fit perfectly with the Star Wars vibe.


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Third, what was that whole Leia the Superhero waking up in outer space and flying back to the ship's airlock about?  It looked like a scene cropped from "The Green Lantern."


Leia should be powerful in the Force. We finally got to see her do something cool Force-wise besides talk/feel over long distances. She created a bubble of oxygen around her moments before being blown into space and then moved through space with the power of her mind. I loved it.

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Fourth, half of the movie is a completely useless side quest, that destroys the entire plan of the vice admiral...


This goes with one of the major themes of the movie: failure. People are failing all over the place here. Finn and Rose failed to get the Codebreaker (and the failed in their mission on the ship). Luke failed with Kylo Ren. Kylo and Rey both failed to turn each other. Snoke failed to kill/turn Rey and keep Kylo subservient to him, Poe failed as a leader. The Resistance failed to save most of their people and ships. How we deal with failure is a major plot point of the movie and, in my opinion, was a bold theme to tackle for a movie series that is essentially Buddhist Flash Gordon with space wizards.

More to come. LNF cut me off...
« Last Edit: Apr 23rd, 2018 at 5:14pm by Maestro »  



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Re: The Last Jedi - Why do people like this crap? (Spoilers)
Reply #9 - Apr 23rd, 2018 at 5:05pm
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which could have been avoided by the vice admiral simply telling people she's not going to let them all die, she has a plan to escape.  Is that really what admirals do?  Push their underlings to the point of mutiny by not telling them what the strategy is? 


(CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST)

I admit that this wasn't as clear as it could have been. It was very lightly hinted towards the beginning that a saboteur/spy might have been involved in the First Order's ability to find the Resistance.

The opening crawl states, "But the Resistance has been exposed. As the First Order speeds toward the rebel base, the brave heroes mount a desperate escape...."

When I watched this the first time, I immediately assumed there was a spy and that the Resistance feared the same thing. And, until it became clear to everyone what the FO was actually doing, I was under the impression that the higher-ups were being close-mouthed because of their fears of a spy. I was so convinced of this, that I was surprised that everyone found their behavior perplexing. It was only after watching it again at home that I realized that no characters actually expressed this fear/suspicion clearly, and that I was just getting it from the opening crawl. I still think that's what is supposed to be happening, but I admit that they should have made it clearer.


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Fifth, Finn literally tries to sacrifice himself to blow up the huge cannon that's going to kill all of the resistance members, and Rose blows her own ship to run into him and almost kills herself to save him ... ensuring that the huge cannon is going to blow up the door to where the "Resistance" is taking shelter.  What the crappity smack was that about?  That was literally the dumbest thing in any movie I've seen recently.  And not to mention they're then 15 feet in front of the entire Empire raiding force, but that's cool.  They're fine.  Not just fine but have time for Rose to have a death scene of sorts where she tells him "We're going to win this by saving what we love, not by sacrificing ourselves."  When she just got done sacrificing herself to save what she loves, by stopping Finn from sacrificing himself to save what HE loves ....


She actually says, "We're going to win this war, not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love.” She wasn't objecting to self-sacrifice, but to the bitterness and hatred that Finn had been demonstrating in this movie.

Ok, I loved LOVED that this movie made it clear that super-powerful Jedi are not the only people in the galaxy that need to check their hatred. Unchecked hatred isn't good for the common man either. It can destroy you.

Luke threw away his lightsaber in ROTJ because he would have killed Palps out of hatred. (You can object to that philosophy, but it IS what happened). To many people, that is nonsensical. Luke should have just tried to kill Palps while Vader was wounded. He didn't know about force lightning, or if Palps had anything but the most rudimentary command of the Force. However, the moral of the movies has always been that acting out of hatred is bad, even if the ends seem to justify the means.

Just as Luke decided not to kill out of hatred, Rose stopped Finn from doing so. He was clearly acting out of anger and frustration as he had been doing for the whole movie. This scene may seem silly to some, but it fits perfectly with the established SW mythos.

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Sixth, everything about Luke Skywalker and how Ben Solo became Kylo Ren is implausible and unbelievable.
 

I didn't think so. I loved that they gave Luke a new weakness. The temptation to make Luke a newer better Yoda or Obi-Wan had to be strong. Again, they tied Luke into the theme of failure, which was excellent. They made Luke an imperfect human being instead of an emotionless guru. I loved it.

I would offer one more suggestion. Go watch the movie with a kid. I have a boy and girl ages 5 and 8. We saw it together as a family (second time for me and my wife. We watch PG 13 movies together first before bringing the kids just in case). They were sooooooo excited while watching the movie and after. They talked about little else for days. I saw myself watching ROTJ with my grandmother reflected in both of my kids' faces. It was awesome.
« Last Edit: Apr 23rd, 2018 at 6:23pm by Maestro »  



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