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Poll Question: Is Donald Trump Morally Unfit to be President?
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Yes, Trump lacks the moral fiber to be President    
  13 (68.4%)
No, Trump is not too immoral to be President    
  6 (31.6%)




Total votes: 19
« Last Modified by: Ulysses on: Apr 16th, 2018 at 8:01pm »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Is Trump Morally Unfit to be President? (Read 1,035 times)
TowardLiberty
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Re: Is Trump Morally Unfit to be President?
Reply #30 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 1:36pm
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billy.pilgrim wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 12:25pm:
I reckon you approved of some Americans financing Hitler after we placed those sanctions too. What was it they said afterwards – a war president gets his agenda – yeah, that was it


I don't think there is anything behind this reckoning that is relevant to anything I have said.

Quote:
No, trump is not like any other. trump's lack of morality is a very new presidential quality.

Q discredits himself by saying clinton "slaughtered" but lil bush only "allowed" himself into being manipulated.

It seems to me you have a problem with the equivalence. Q is not discrediting himself. He is discrediting Bush and Clinton.
  

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Re: Is Trump Morally Unfit to be President?
Reply #31 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 1:44pm
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Queshank wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 9:55am:
What constitutes morally fit to be president?

What are the parameters?

I only ask because that's why I brought up Clinton. 

How many people can a president kill before their morality gets called into question?

Clinton slaughtered hundreds of thousands of men, women and children in the Middle East thru the application of tariffs designed to punish Saddam Hussein, one of the many actions that Osama bin Laden blamed for his attacks on 9/11.  He gave the whole "manipulate the people" movement in American politics legs by trying to parse so much that he famously said "It depends on what the definition of is, is."  Is he more or less moral than Trump?

George W Bush allowed his administration to manipulate us into a few wars in the Middle East that caused massive civilian death and destruction of homes and livelihoods.  Hundreds of thousands of people dead, millions displaced.  Free pass on morality?

Obama's actions in the Middle East have been well documented by all of us.  Hundreds of thousands dead.  Millions displaced from their homes.  First president to assassinate an American citizen.  Where does he rate on the morality scale?

How many people can you or I kill before we're considered immoral?

What exactly is the metric by which we judge the morality of a president?  It seems quite arbitrary.  THAT's what bearing it has on this odd poll.

In what way am I hurt if Trump crappity smacks around on his wife?  Why should I give a shit about that if I don't give a shit about the estimated 4,000 civilians he's killed during his time helming the war against ISIS?

And more to the point ... how the hell do you compare Trump to at least our last 3 presidents and determine he's the one that's lacking in morals?  If "presidential" is the criteria I'd say Trump has exactly the right morals for the job.

Queshank



The question is " Is Trump morally unfit to be President?"

I don't like the whole "But what about Hussein, Boosh, or Clintoon" stuff, but yes none them were morally fit either.

If your family can't trust you then you are morally unfit, if you can slaughter innocent people then you are not morally fit.

I would consider very few Presidents, if any, morally fit, but at the same time I'm not a big fan of the existence of that office to begin with.
« Last Edit: Apr 17th, 2018 at 1:49pm by Lomelis »  

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Re: Is Trump Morally Unfit to be President?
Reply #32 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 1:55pm
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TowardLiberty wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 1:36pm:
I don't think there is anything behind this reckoning that is relevant to anything I have said.

It seems to me you have a problem with the equivalence. Q is not discrediting himself. He is discrediting Bush and Clinton.



I clearly don't see equivalence between the millions killed in bush's for profit war that just keeps on giving and anything that happened during the Clinton administration, especially in light of Q’s finding yet another way to attack Clinton with his “Clinton slaughtered hundreds of thousands of men, women and children” and the super soft pedal where poor feckless lil bush was manipulated by all those bad people.


All I see is more of the same old partisan Qsplaining.
  

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Queshank
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Re: Is Trump Morally Unfit to be President?
Reply #33 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 2:03pm
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Lomelis wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 1:44pm:
The question is "Trump morally unfit to be President".

I don't like the whole "But what about Hussein, Boosh, or Clintoon" stuff, but yes none them were morally fit either.

If you're family can't trust you then you are morally unfit, if you can slaughter innocent people then you are not morally fit.


I can respect that position.

It just seems like a challenging position.  It puts the position of president on a moral plane it barely seems to deserve.  And that's where I question the question being asked here.

Is Trump morally fit to be president?  What does that mean?  What are the moral requirements for holding the office of the presidency?

I mean, going back even further than those 3 ... when did we have a "morally fit" president? 

Morality seems like such a partisan issue doesn't it? 

And then there's all the apparently moral candidates the American people have consistently rejected.  Like Mitt Romney. 

And the point I'm trying to get at.  It certainly doesn't seem like a prerequisite for presidential ambitions.  Until the other team wins an election.  Then suddenly it's the most important god damned thing in the world.

Just one of the reasons I don't shit my tits as much about Trump the Clown President as all the partisans do.

Queshank
  

The question isn't whether or not we're descended from monkeys.  The question is, when are we going to stop descending?
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Re: Is Trump Morally Unfit to be President?
Reply #34 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 2:04pm
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Queshank wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 9:55am:
What constitutes morally fit to be president?

What are the parameters?

I only ask because that's why I brought up Clinton. 

How many people can a president kill before their morality gets called into question?

Clinton slaughtered hundreds of thousands of men, women and children in the Middle East thru the application of tariffs designed to punish Saddam Hussein, one of the many actions that Osama bin Laden blamed for his attacks on 9/11.  He gave the whole "manipulate the people" movement in American politics legs by trying to parse so much that he famously said "It depends on what the definition of is, is."  Is he more or less moral than Trump?

George W Bush allowed his administration to manipulate us into a few wars in the Middle East that caused massive civilian death and destruction of homes and livelihoods.  Hundreds of thousands of people dead, millions displaced.  Free pass on morality?

Obama's actions in the Middle East have been well documented by all of us.  Hundreds of thousands dead.  Millions displaced from their homes.  First president to assassinate an American citizen.  Where does he rate on the morality scale?

How many people can you or I kill before we're considered immoral?

What exactly is the metric by which we judge the morality of a president?  It seems quite arbitrary.  THAT's what bearing it has on this odd poll.

In what way am I hurt if Trump crappity smacks around on his wife?  Why should I give a shit about that if I don't give a shit about the estimated 4,000 civilians he's killed during his time helming the war against ISIS?

And more to the point ... how the hell do you compare Trump to at least our last 3 presidents and determine he's the one that's lacking in morals?  If "presidential" is the criteria I'd say Trump has exactly the right morals for the job.

Queshank

Clinton "slaughtered" hundreds of thousands in the middle east with tariffs? Clinton was shit but that's a stretch. I assume you are holding Trump to account for the thousands and thousands that must be dying in NK due to his sanctions on that country? I thought you were making the case Trump was the Prince of Peace not that long ago. Or is your point there is no such thing as morality and we should abandon all hope of ever having even the slightest excuse of such a fake thing? No facts, no truth, no morality? That's what college stoners sitting far too long in their philosophy master's degree say.
  

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Re: Is Trump Morally Unfit to be President?
Reply #35 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 2:06pm
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billy.pilgrim wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 1:55pm:
I clearly don't see equivalence between the millions killed in bush's for profit war that just keeps on giving and anything that happened during the Clinton administration, especially in light of Q’s finding yet another way to attack Clinton with his “Clinton slaughtered hundreds of thousands of men, women and children” and the super soft pedal where poor feckless lil bush was manipulated by all those bad people.


All I see is more of the same old partisan Qsplaining.


Or it could be I think Clinton ran the show during the Clinton administration and Cheney ran the show during the Bush administration.  But we aren't being asked about the morality of the vice presidents are we?

I'm sorry I insulted your partisan bias by pointing out Clinton slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children ... by his administration's own admission "worth it" ... by implementing sanctions in a futile, ineffectual attempt to control Saddam Hussein.  Forgive me.

Queshank
  

The question isn't whether or not we're descended from monkeys.  The question is, when are we going to stop descending?
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Re: Is Trump Morally Unfit to be President?
Reply #36 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 2:11pm
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Vypr wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 2:04pm:
Clinton "slaughtered" hundreds of thousands in the middle east with tariffs? Clinton was shit but that's a stretch. I


Not hundreds of thousands.  Hundreds of thousands of children.  Way more if you count adults.



Quote:
assume you are holding Trump to account for the thousands and thousands that must be dying in NK due to his sanctions on that country?


You won't now and never have heard me argue Trump is a "moral" president.

Quote:
I thought you were making the case Trump was the Prince of Peace not that long ago.


Nope.  I was arguing Hillary Clinton has a horrible track record on "Peace" and Trump has none.

Quote:
Or is your point there is no such thing as morality and we should abandon all hope of ever having even the slightest excuse of such a fake thing? No facts, no truth, no morality? That's what college stoners sitting far too long in their philosophy master's degree say.


No.  I think I've been pretty clear that the presidency is not a "moral" office.  The only thing being polled here is one's level of partisan bias.

Queshank
  

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Re: Is Trump Morally Unfit to be President?
Reply #37 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 2:16pm
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Queshank wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 2:11pm:
Nope.  I was arguing Hillary Clinton has a horrible track record on "Peace" and Trump has none.

Queshank


No, not really. You were implying Trump was bringing us all world peace:

http://www.libertynewsforum.com/cgi-bin/politics/YaBB.pl?num=1510421109/0
  

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Re: Is Trump Morally Unfit to be President?
Reply #38 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 2:23pm
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Queshank wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 2:06pm:
Or it could be I think Clinton ran the show during the Clinton administration and Cheney ran the show during the Bush administration.  But we aren't being asked about the morality of the vice presidents are we?

I'm sorry I insulted your partisan bias by pointing out Clinton slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children ... by his administration's own admission "worth it" ... by implementing sanctions in a futile, ineffectual attempt to control Saddam Hussein.  Forgive me.

Queshank



following policies related to pappy bush's oil war
  

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Re: Is Trump Morally Unfit to be President?
Reply #39 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 2:27pm
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Vypr wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 2:16pm:
No, not really. You were implying Trump was bringing us all world peace:

http://www.libertynewsforum.com/cgi-bin/politics/YaBB.pl?num=1510421109/0


LOL.  Perhaps you haven't been here long enough to recognize when I'm mocking people.

But by all means bump that thread and explain how any of the questions I asked aren't accurate.

Is North Korea unsure and confused?  Did they not just call for talks to discuss denuclearization?

Did Tony Blair not say the things he said?

Did China not come out again just within the past few weeks calling for international cooperation and free trade?

Have we ever been this close to world peace before Vypr?

It's interesting how well that thread stands the test of time.  Thanks for bringing it up. 

Queshank
  

The question isn't whether or not we're descended from monkeys.  The question is, when are we going to stop descending?
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