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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) intelligent design (Read 2,705 times)
EF
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Re: intelligent design
Reply #10 - May 3rd, 2018 at 10:00pm
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Don't want the thread to get too far down in the pecking order:

http://humanevents.com/2013/12/16/intelligent-design-theories-gaining-steam-in-s...
  

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Re: intelligent design
Reply #11 - May 4th, 2018 at 11:50am
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EF wrote on May 3rd, 2018 at 10:00pm:
Don't want the thread to get too far down in the pecking order:

http://humanevents.com/2013/12/16/intelligent-design-theories-gaining-steam-in-s...


Here's a relevant excerpt for those not curious enough to click on the link:

Perhaps the best way to answer this question is to state clearly what you have to believe in order not to believe in intelligent design. Peter Urone, in his 2001 physics text College Physics writes, “One of the most remarkable simplifications in physics is that only four distinct forces account for all known phenomena.” The prevailing view in science today is that physics explains all of chemistry, chemistry explains all of biology, and biology completely explains the human mind; thus physics alone explains the human mind and all it does. This is what you have to believe to not believe in intelligent design, that the origin and evolution of life, and the evolution of human consciousness and intelligence, are due entirely to a few unintelligent forces of physics. Thus you must believe that a few unintelligent forces of physics alone could have rearranged the fundamental particles of physics into computers and science texts and jet airplanes.

Contrary to popular belief, to be an ID proponent you do not have to believe that all species were created simultaneously a few thousand years ago, or that humans are unrelated to earlier primates, or that natural selection cannot cause bacteria to develop a resistance to antibiotics. If you believe that a few fundamental, unintelligent forces of physics alone could have rearranged the basic particles of physics into Apple iPhones, you are probably not an ID proponent, even if you believe in God. But if you believe there must have been more than unintelligent forces at work somewhere, somehow, in the whole process: congratulations, you are one of us after all!
  

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Re: intelligent design
Reply #12 - May 4th, 2018 at 1:47pm
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Limey. wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 7:10pm:
As I understand it - and I accept I may have fallen for an elaborate hoax - you lunatics have severely religious people trying to influence public policy on matters of personal morality, liberty, education, health, international relations, the environment, tax, defence and lots of other things.

If religion is attempting to colonise politics surely this is the forum to discuss it?


I think most all western nations openly acknowledge the basis of many basic laws have religious doctrine as their root. Whether right or wrong that is fairly well documented.
  
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Re: intelligent design
Reply #13 - May 4th, 2018 at 2:08pm
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EF wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 8:40pm:
This is definitely the place for this thread.  Religion forum would be okay, too, I suppose.  But intelligent design is not necessarily about religion. 

A thread about a literal six day (with 24 hours in each day) creation either 10,000 or 6,000 years ago, depending on which geneaology one uses, is definitely a topic for the religion forum.  But lots of very non-religious people, including scientists who are almost as smart as one of our moderators, embrace at least the possibility if not likeliehood of intelligent design. 

I was accused of not being able to think for myself by a fellow who asserted it was much more plausible to believe all that we see around us, the expanding universe, the life forms on this planet, the stars, the planets, the asteroids, etc. sprang from absolutely nothing (or a something that was already there but whose existence is inexplicable) than to believe that some intelligent designer, whose existence is also inexplicable, had something to do with it.  I beg to disagree, and so do many real scientists.


As someone trained in science, who worked in it, I can say I've only met one scientist who believes in intelligent design. Interestingly, he's a geologist, which surprises me because he really does understand how old the earth is. Not sure how he resolves these things. And for the record, he's a hero of mine, though we patently disagree on this issue.

The vast, VAST, majority of scientists do not even consider 'intelligent' design worth arguing about, as it has no basis in science.

But, since the Institute for Creation Research is located in my city, and it is the HQ for arguing to have 'intelligent' design taught in schools, this is, at least in part, a political issue.

For me, I see no conflict between having Faith and being a scientist. They solve totally different problems, and I would not go to one for the other. If I want to know about the beginnings of the universe, I would go to an astrophysicist. About evolution, a biologist. But if I want to talk about good and evil, the concept of my soul, or what morality is, I would use religion.
  
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Re: intelligent design
Reply #14 - May 4th, 2018 at 2:29pm
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Freon_Bale wrote on May 4th, 2018 at 2:08pm:
As someone trained in science, who worked in it, I can say I've only met one scientist who believes in intelligent design. Interestingly, he's a geologist, which surprises me because he really does understand how old the earth is. Not sure how he resolves these things.

Good post, overall. However, I do question why the above is any sort of contradiction?

Belief in intelligent design has nothing to do with the age of the earth. You're thinking of fundamentalist Christians. Perhaps fundamentalists Christians who believe in a very young Earth fall into the category of people who believe in intelligent design, but they do not define it.
  

Wadsworth wrote on Jun 11th, 2018 at 3:40pm:
You are awfully concerned about who gets to live.  Why is it so important to you?
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Re: intelligent design
Reply #15 - May 4th, 2018 at 3:23pm
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on May 4th, 2018 at 2:29pm:
Good post, overall. However, I do question why the above is any sort of contradiction?

Belief in intelligent design has nothing to do with the age of the earth. You're thinking of fundamentalist Christians. Perhaps fundamentalists Christians who believe in a very young Earth fall into the category of people who believe in intelligent design, but they do not define it.


I agree with your point, and I should have mentioned that he is a creationist as well.
  
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Re: intelligent design
Reply #16 - May 5th, 2018 at 12:20pm
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See, Bowhunter?  This is the kind of discussion that could have been occurring on the sciences and wonders board were it not so over-moderated.  Although it's better up here because there is little to nothing going on in the sciences and wonders board.
  

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Re: intelligent design
Reply #17 - May 5th, 2018 at 1:22pm
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petep wrote on May 4th, 2018 at 1:47pm:
I think most all western nations openly acknowledge the basis of many basic laws have religious doctrine as their root. Whether right or wrong that is fairly well documented.


root, yes.

Affecting current law making - no thanks.
  

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Re: intelligent design
Reply #18 - May 5th, 2018 at 1:24pm
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Freon_Bale wrote on May 4th, 2018 at 2:08pm:
As someone trained in science, who worked in it, I can say I've only met one scientist who believes in intelligent design. Interestingly, he's a geologist, which surprises me because he really does understand how old the earth is. Not sure how he resolves these things. And for the record, he's a hero of mine, though we patently disagree on this issue.

The vast, VAST, majority of scientists do not even consider 'intelligent' design worth arguing about, as it has no basis in science.

But, since the Institute for Creation Research is located in my city, and it is the HQ for arguing to have 'intelligent' design taught in schools, this is, at least in part, a political issue.

For me, I see no conflict between having Faith and being a scientist. They solve totally different problems, and I would not go to one for the other. If I want to know about the beginnings of the universe, I would go to an astrophysicist. About evolution, a biologist. But if I want to talk about good and evil, the concept of my soul, or what morality is, I would use religion.



I'm with you for most of the post, and then the highlighted bit.... are you sure? Morality - from religion???
  

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Re: intelligent design
Reply #19 - May 5th, 2018 at 1:36pm
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petep wrote on May 4th, 2018 at 1:47pm:
I think most all western nations openly acknowledge the basis of many basic laws have religious doctrine as their root. Whether right or wrong that is fairly well documented.


Ah yes.. Another incidence of religion usurping the work of earlier men.
  

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