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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) intelligent design (Read 2,267 times)
EF
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Re: intelligent design
Reply #190 - May 14th, 2018 at 11:00am
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KW680 wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 10:27am:
BUT YOU are discussing were we created by God or are we some lab Rats so YES it does revolve around christianity and Non  Christianity.


No, it does NOT revolve around Christianity and non-Christianity.  It does not even revolve around religion.  I am the "creator" of the thread, you know. 
  

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EF
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Re: intelligent design
Reply #191 - May 14th, 2018 at 5:52pm
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EF wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 9:52am:
My understanding of the Big Bang theory, which I believe is the theory du jour of the beginning of the universe (and one to which I subscribe) is that there was this infinitely dense singularity.  It contained all matter that ever existed or ever will exist, my understanding being that under that theory matter cannot be either created or destroyed.  If it cannot be created, it just was.  If time and space both came into being (that is, began) at the moment that infinitely dense singularity exploded. it stands to reason that it (the infinitely dense singularity) was in existence prior to the beginning of space and time (which, according to my non-scientifically trained understanding, exist sort of togther in what is called a "space/time continuum").


This thread has (counting this one) 191 replies.  Not bad.  I would like to keep it going.
  

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Re: intelligent design
Reply #192 - May 14th, 2018 at 6:46pm
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EF wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 5:52pm:
This thread has (counting this one) 191 replies.  Not bad.  I would like to keep it going.

I appreciate you doing so, EF. I’ve enjoyed the thread.
  

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Re: intelligent design
Reply #193 - May 14th, 2018 at 6:53pm
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 6:46pm:
I appreciate you doing so, EF. I’ve enjoyed the thread.


Thanks.  I have, too.  I'm really glad that thin skinned moderator in the alleged "sciences and wonders" forum wouldn't permit it to remain there.  That forum is, shall we say, a tad moribund.  This thread deserves better than that. 
  

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Re: intelligent design
Reply #194 - May 15th, 2018 at 11:01am
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I was hoping the fellow who asked me what "allowed" me to say something existed outside of time and space would respond to my response.
  

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Re: intelligent design
Reply #195 - May 15th, 2018 at 10:20pm
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EF wrote on May 15th, 2018 at 11:01am:
I was hoping the fellow who asked me what "allowed" me to say something existed outside of time and space would respond to my response.


But apparently not.  To summarize:

An infinitely dense singularity containing all matter that exists exploded in what we call the Big Bang billions of years ago.  Space and time began at that point.  Matter was flung into a void that is not space, and space and matter continue to expand into that void.  That infinitely dense singularity either existed on its own without benefit of a Creator or a Creator made it.  I submit that the second option (a Creator) requires less suspension of disbelief, but both require a good bit of it.
  

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Re: intelligent design
Reply #196 - May 15th, 2018 at 10:36pm
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EF wrote on May 15th, 2018 at 10:20pm:
But apparently not.  To summarize:

An infinitely dense singularity containing all matter that exists exploded in what we call the Big Bang billions of years ago.  Space and time began at that point.  Matter was flung into a void that is not space, and space and matter continue to expand into that void.  That infinitely dense singularity either existed on its own without benefit of a Creator or a Creator made it.  I submit that the second option (a Creator) requires less suspension of disbelief, but both require a good bit of it.



Your "creator" option requires the greatest suspension of disbelief.. 

You're taking something so mind blowingly unique as THE UNIVERSE and multiplying it by infinity with a double super mind blowingly unique being existing outside of spacetime all while insisting that the creator didn't need a creator... he just is.. A courtesy you will not extend to the universe.
  

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Re: intelligent design
Reply #197 - May 16th, 2018 at 4:09pm
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Fiddler wrote on May 15th, 2018 at 10:36pm:
Your "creator" option requires the greatest suspension of disbelief.. 

You're taking something so mind blowingly unique as THE UNIVERSE and multiplying it by infinity with a double super mind blowingly unique being existing outside of spacetime all while insisting that the creator didn't need a creator... he just is.. A courtesy you will not extend to the universe.


It's not a matter of "extending a courtesy."  It's a matter of deciding which of the two scenarios I presented requires less suspension of disbelief.  So far, I believe you are the only person who has offered an opinion that it requires less suspension of disbelief to assert that an inexplicable, infinitely dense singularity could exist outside of time and space than is required by a belief in an inexplicable Creator who exists outside of time and space.
« Last Edit: May 16th, 2018 at 4:31pm by EF »  

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Re: intelligent design
Reply #198 - May 16th, 2018 at 4:33pm
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EF wrote on May 16th, 2018 at 4:09pm:
It's not a matter of "extending a courtesy."  It's a matter of deciding which of the two scenarios I presented requires less suspension of disbelief. .



And you chose the one that requires TWO super mind blowingly unique occurrences.



The one that we've seen and to some extent understand it's evolution you insist HAD to have a creator .. 

The other is the creator which we know nothing about but you say has exited outside of spacetime and did not itself require creation..

With that it should be clear to anyone giving it honest examination that a universe sans creator requires less suspension of disbelief..

  

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Re: intelligent design
Reply #199 - May 16th, 2018 at 5:20pm
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Fiddler wrote on May 16th, 2018 at 4:33pm:
And you chose the one that requires TWO super mind blowingly unique occurrences.



The one that we've seen and to some extent understand it's evolution you insist HAD to have a creator .. 

The other is the creator which we know nothing about but you say has exited outside of spacetime and did not itself require creation..

With that it should be clear to anyone giving it honest examination that a universe sans creator requires less suspension of disbelief..


I laugh at your description of God because that is exactly what he is mind-blowing!  He is not a mortal man, he is a Creator who spoke life by mere words.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

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