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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) intelligent design (Read 2,263 times)
EF
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Re: intelligent design
Reply #200 - May 16th, 2018 at 5:49pm
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Fiddler wrote on May 16th, 2018 at 4:33pm:
And you chose the one that requires TWO super mind blowingly unique occurrences.



The one that we've seen and to some extent understand it's evolution you insist HAD to have a creator .. 

The other is the creator which we know nothing about but you say has exited outside of spacetime and did not itself require creation..

With that it should be clear to anyone giving it honest examination that a universe sans creator requires less suspension of disbelief..



No, just one.  In fact, not even an occurrence.  A thing or being that did not occur, but that always was, outside of time and space.

I'd still like to  see which of the two others pick as the one that requires the least suspension of disbelief, recognizing that they both require a lot.

Not asking anybody to trot the aisle and give his heart to Jesus.  Not inviting anyone to a Turn or Burn session.  Not expecting anyone to have a Damascaus Road experience.  Just asking, of those two, which requires the least suspension of disbelief?
  

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EF
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Re: intelligent design
Reply #201 - May 16th, 2018 at 6:00pm
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EF wrote on May 16th, 2018 at 5:49pm:
No, just one.  In fact, not even an occurrence.  A thing or being that did not occur, but that always was, outside of time and space.

I'd still like to  see which of the two others pick as the one that requires the least suspension of disbelief, recognizing that they both require a lot.

Not asking anybody to trot the aisle and give his heart to Jesus.  Not inviting anyone to a Turn or Burn session.  Not expecting anyone to have a Damascaus Road experience.  Just asking, of those two, which requires the least suspension of disbelief?


In fact, I am not even asking anyone who admits it requires less suspension of disbelief to accept the notion of a creator who exists outside of time and space and who created that infinitely dense singularity than it does to accept the notion that an infinitely dense singularity once existed outside of time and space without benefit of a creator to change his mind about anything.  One is still free to say regardless of which requires less suspension of disbelief, one still knows for sure there is NO creator. 
« Last Edit: May 16th, 2018 at 6:25pm by EF »  

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EF
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Re: intelligent design
Reply #202 - May 17th, 2018 at 10:34am
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EF wrote on May 16th, 2018 at 6:00pm:
In fact, I am not even asking anyone who admits it requires less suspension of disbelief to accept the notion of a creator who exists outside of time and space and who created that infinitely dense singularity than it does to accept the notion that an infinitely dense singularity once existed outside of time and space without benefit of a creator to change his mind about anything.  One is still free to say regardless of which requires less suspension of disbelief, one still knows for sure there is NO creator. 


No one but Fiddler and EF care to share their opinion?  Here's another summary of the question:

Which of these two scenarios requires less suspension of disbelief?

a.  An inexplicable, infinitely dense singularity, containing all matter, existed outside of time and space.  It exploded in what we call the Big Bang, flinging matter into a void that was not space, and that explosion marked the beginning of time and space.  Matter and space continue to expand into a void that was not space.  That infinitely dense singularity did not occur.  It just was.  It had no beginning; it existed outside of time and space, both of which began at its explosion in the Big Bang.

b.  An inexplicable creator that has no beginning, always was, made that infinitely dense singularity from nothing in an inexplicable way.  (But not really any more inexplicable than the singularity just existing outside of time and space.)  That creator did not occur.  That creator existed and continues to exist outside of time and space.




  

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Re: intelligent design
Reply #203 - May 17th, 2018 at 10:37am
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EF wrote on May 17th, 2018 at 10:34am:
No one but Fiddler and EF care to share their opinion?  Here's another summary of the question:

Which of these two scenarios requires less suspension of disbelief?

a.  An inexplicable, infinitely dense singularity, containing all matter, existed outside of time and space.  It exploded in what we call the Big Bang, flinging matter into a void that was not space, and that explosion marked the beginning of time and space.  Matter and space continue to expand into a void that was not space.  That infinitely dense singularity did not occur.  It just was.  It had no beginning; it existed outside of time and space, both of which began at its explosion in the Big Bang.

b.  An inexplicable creator that has no beginning, always was, made that infinitely dense singularity from nothing in an inexplicable way.  (But not really any more inexplicable than the singularity just existing outside of time and space.)  That creator did not occur.  That creator existed and continues to exist outside of time and space.


Neither.  One just substitutes one question for another.

The one that requires the least suspension of disbelief is my own.  Who the hell cares?

I'm not trying to minimize your conversation or the question.  But as far as I'm concerned this is one of those puzzles that's firmly in the "we will never know" box.  Nobody was around taking notes.   And when the question is framed in those terms, the one that requires the most suspension of disbelief is the one that pretends there was someone around taking notes.

Queshank
  

BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
I am not aware of any article
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Re: intelligent design
Reply #204 - May 18th, 2018 at 9:04pm
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Queshank wrote on May 17th, 2018 at 10:37am:
Neither.  One just substitutes one question for another.

The one that requires the least suspension of disbelief is my own.  Who the hell cares?

I'm not trying to minimize your conversation or the question.  But as far as I'm concerned this is one of those puzzles that's firmly in the "we will never know" box.  Nobody was around taking notes.   And when the question is framed in those terms, the one that requires the most suspension of disbelief is the one that pretends there was someone around taking notes.

Queshank


Most scientists care, even those who reject the possibility of an intelligent designer.  And I am surprised at your response - I would have thought an atheist would pick the option that did not involve a creator, since an atheist is (I thought) pretty sure there is no such thing.  You sound more like an agnostic on the subject.

Scientists investigate lots of things that occurred when no one was around taking notes.  Would  you have them stop?
  

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EF
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Re: intelligent design
Reply #205 - May 19th, 2018 at 4:05pm
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EF wrote on May 18th, 2018 at 9:04pm:
Most scientists care, even those who reject the possibility of an intelligent designer.  And I am surprised at your response - I would have thought an atheist would pick the option that did not involve a creator, since an atheist is (I thought) pretty sure there is no such thing.  You sound more like an agnostic on the subject.

Scientists investigate lots of things that occurred when no one was around taking notes.  Would  you have them stop?


Anybody agree with Queshank?
  

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