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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Monday Our Embassy Opens In Jerusalem (Read 1,405 times)
patrick2
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Re: Monday Our Embassy Opens In Jerusalem
Reply #110 - May 14th, 2018 at 6:58pm
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EF wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 6:56pm:
Nope.  I don't think anyone, other than you, has ever asserted that all the Jews arriving in what was then known as Palestine in 1948 only wanted to farm a few acres.  I don't think anyone with just a little knowledge of history ever would, either.


I don't care what anyone "thinks".   Cite facts from a credible, neutral source, or shaddup.
  
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Demos
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Re: Monday Our Embassy Opens In Jerusalem
Reply #111 - May 14th, 2018 at 7:30pm
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^ How about Walter Laqueur’s A History of Zionism.
  
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Re: Monday Our Embassy Opens In Jerusalem
Reply #112 - May 14th, 2018 at 7:49pm
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The palestinian argument is really irrelevant, almost as much as they are.

Israel fought, and they won. It's theirs.

It's like Americans came and conquered the indians. We won. It's ours. To the victor go the spoils.
  


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Re: Monday Our Embassy Opens In Jerusalem
Reply #113 - May 14th, 2018 at 8:42pm
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Jasmine wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 6:47pm:
How is it unjust? God gave Israel to the Jews.



Lol


  

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Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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EF
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Re: Monday Our Embassy Opens In Jerusalem
Reply #114 - May 14th, 2018 at 8:50pm
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Demos wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 7:30pm:
^ How about Walter Laqueur’s A History of Zionism.

The Pledge by Leonard Slater is a good book on this subject, too.
  

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Seawolf
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Re: Monday Our Embassy Opens In Jerusalem
Reply #115 - May 15th, 2018 at 6:56am
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Limey. wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 6:38pm:
The problem, though, is that Israel’s formation as a country was done by unjust means.

You can’t really expect people still suffering from that to be cool with it.


I’m sure there’s some justification in varied religious texts, but that’s not exactly a sensible foundation for political decision making.

The problem with your thinking is you ignore the fact that Arabs own 99% of all the land in the Middle East and the world is upset with a tiny nation that owns less then 1% of the land and to me, that is insane.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

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EF
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Re: Monday Our Embassy Opens In Jerusalem
Reply #116 - May 15th, 2018 at 10:55am
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Seawolf wrote on May 15th, 2018 at 6:56am:
The problem with your thinking is you ignore the fact that Arabs own 99% of all the land in the Middle East and the world is upset with a tiny nation that owns less then 1% of the land and to me, that is insane.


I don't know that the whole world is upset with that tiny nation, but the people who were run out of that tiny nation 70 years ago are still kind of PO's about it.  (And that 1% doesn't even have any oil under it!) At least their descendants are.  Lest they forget about it and move on, they even celebrate an annual Day of Catastrophe to commemorate it.  These current "demonstrations" may be a little more extreme than prior years because of the recent Jerusalem embassy announcement, but I think that kind of stuff happens every year around this date.  (And really, that announcement hasn't changed much of the status quo.  There was already a consulate in Jerusalem and most of the embassy employees are going to remain in Tel Aviv until a new embassy building is built.  All this is really going to do is cause the taxpayers of the US several to several hundred million dollars to construct a building in Jerusalem to perform functions that until it;s finished will continue to be performed well enough in Tel Aviv.  So it's bascially a job creation bill, and Trump ran on creating jobs.)

I don't know what I would feel if I were one of those folks or a descendant of one of those folks.  But I hope I would realize, after 70 years, some compromise needs to be made with the Israelis.  And I would hope the Israelis would be willing to consider such.  Both groups have a right to exist.

I would also, I hope, understand that the Israelis have more reason to be distrustful of the Palestinians than the other way around.  As the drunken thug Rodney King said after the LA riots, "Can't we all just get along?"
  

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patrick2
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Re: Monday Our Embassy Opens In Jerusalem
Reply #117 - May 15th, 2018 at 11:35am
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They were run out, because in 1948 after the British just left, they joined in with seven invading arab armies in an attempt to annihilate the jews.  Having aready seen that movie in Europe during WW2, the jews declined to be annihilated and expelled the would-be annihilators.  Lots of other arabs left voluntarily , expecting to return after a future, successful annihilation, but that has never come.  The non-genocidal arabs who didn't flee are citizens of Israel today.
  
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Seawolf
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Re: Monday Our Embassy Opens In Jerusalem
Reply #118 - May 15th, 2018 at 11:48am
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patrick2 wrote on May 15th, 2018 at 11:35am:
They were run out, because in 1948 after the British just left, they joined in with seven invading arab armies in an attempt to annihilate the jews.  Having aready seen that movie in Europe during WW2, the jews declined to be annihilated and expelled the would-be annihilators.  Lots of other arabs left voluntarily , expecting to return after a future, successful annihilation, but that has never come.  The non-genocidal arabs who didn't flee are citizens of Israel today.

EF, here is the issue with your view is you ignore what actually transpired.  This would be a completely different scenario had everyone abided with the terms.  The Arabs had zero tolerance to the Jews who have just as much historical claim to the land if not more as the Arabs.  The first aggressors were the Arabs, the predominate attitude that started this is still prevalent, their insistence that Israel has no right to exist.  This goes directly to the very core of the issue of this problem.  All Israel is asking is the right to exist, start here and then we may see progress.  Of course little matters when it boils down to prophesy, which does state there will be peace, but that starts the clock at that stage.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Monday Our Embassy Opens In Jerusalem
Reply #119 - May 15th, 2018 at 12:07pm
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Demos wrote on May 14th, 2018 at 7:30pm:
^ How about Walter Laqueur’s A History of Zionism.


This is the book I originally read to get an understanding of modern Israel.

A History of Israel

I think Moishe recommended it to me once.

I found it fascinating.

While it's not very pro Israel despite being written by an Israelite, it really helped me to understand how early Jewish leaders felt and viewed the world. 

You really cannot view Israel without realizing how the trauma of the holocaust impacted every one of the early leaders and how it shaped their worldview and the decisions they made. 

Netanyahu may have been born in Tel Aviv after the holocaust, but you can damn well bet he was raised by parents who had their lives and worldview shaped by the holocaust.

It's odd how people can be so sympathetic to the legacy of slavery here in the United States and how it has impacted our black neighbors, yet the same people completely ignore the impact the holocaust had on the people of Israel.

I was one of them before I read that book.  Leftists are astonishingly naive on the subject of Israel.

Queshank
  

BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
I am not aware of any article
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