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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Interesting opinion piece (Read 1,027 times)
Seawolf
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Re: Interesting opinion piece
Reply #30 - May 23rd, 2018 at 6:33am
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JohnnyBgood wrote on May 22nd, 2018 at 11:03pm:
Its when you bring your religion out to defend your political party and racial sexist opinions. That should have nothing to do with US rights. Gays can marry because this is the US. Now bake the cake!

My morality according to God's law has nothing to do with secular law.  Everyone will stand before God in the end to give an account for their life.  God says to give what is  Ceasuar that which is Ceasuar that which is Ceasuar and unto God that which is God's.  If Gays are allowed to marry then by all means, get married, but a minister of God's word is not bound to marry them, nor should they.  Same with the cake.  That is not religiously right, that is simply right according to the word of God.  Secularist will do what secularist do, but people of faith will do what God commands no matter the outcome.  That is neither right or left, just correct.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Running Deer
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Re: Interesting opinion piece
Reply #31 - May 23rd, 2018 at 7:54pm
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Seawolf wrote on May 21st, 2018 at 5:06pm:
I can give one excellent example, you can not possibly claim to be walking in Christ while you support abortion.


Sure you can.  Neither the Bible nor Christian history give a clear answer on the moral status of fetuses, legal rules in Christian nations have differed throughout history, and hundreds of millions of Christians are pro-choice.

If anything, the Torah indicates that fetuses have lower moral status.

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Living as an adulterer is another example.


Bye Jasmine!  LOL
  

"If cousins, I would much prefer to marry one my Neanderthal relatives than a screeching chimpanzee which might bite my face off as has happened recently. Of course, chimps are not even a human species so procreation between humans and chimps is out of the question." - joe_christian, on sex
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Seawolf
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Re: Interesting opinion piece
Reply #32 - May 23rd, 2018 at 8:34pm
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Running Deer wrote on May 23rd, 2018 at 7:54pm:
Sure you can.  Neither the Bible nor Christian history give a clear answer on the moral status of fetuses, legal rules in Christian nations have differed throughout history, and hundreds of millions of Christians are pro-choice.

If anything, the Torah indicates that fetuses have lower moral status.


Bye Jasmine!  LOL

In my study and many theologians it is very clear.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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EF
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Re: Interesting opinion piece
Reply #33 - May 24th, 2018 at 5:46pm
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I am not going to link it for two reasons:

1.  I heard it on All Things Considered or Morning Edition, and
2.  I don't feel like it.

Those who want to delve deeper can Google as well as I can.

Ireland currently prohibits all abortion.  It is illegal to obtain an abortion in Ireland.  But one can go out of country for such, and people do that.  The penalty for obtaining an illegal abortion is not as great as the penalty for murder, but it is greater than the penalty generally assessed in the USA pre Roe vs Wade.  Ireland's constitution addresses abortion in its 8th amendment.  (That's from memory, but I just listened to it yesterday so I think it's close.  I did not deliberately misstate anything.)

A proposal to amend is being made.  That proposal would permit a safe, legal abortion to any female up through the 12th week.  After that, danger to the life of the mother would be the ONLY exception.  The penalty for obtaining an abortion after the 12th week would still not be the same as for murder, but would still be more severe than any penatly ever assessed in the US for an illegal abortion. 

Sounds like they may have, without calling it that, the "abortion homicide" category proposed by Patrick and seconded by Harry. What they are proposing is pretty close to what I proposed except my proposal would consider abortion after the 13th week pre-meditated murder, the only exception being danger to the life of the mother (after the 13th week).

Would anybody go for Ireland's proposal?  Harry might, I think.  His opinion is "abortion is murder, pure and simple" but he is also on record as stating "society will never treat it that way."  The powers that be in Ireland seem to agree.
  

non sumus stulti
but
accidit stercore
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BowHunter
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Re: Interesting opinion piece
Reply #34 - May 25th, 2018 at 1:38pm
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I am shocked! They have a penalty for murder!!!
  

When Q hears gallop noises he doesn't think zebras; he thinks there's a Democrat behind a curtain, making gallop noises.
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Re: Interesting opinion piece
Reply #35 - May 26th, 2018 at 11:55am
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Running Deer wrote on May 23rd, 2018 at 7:54pm:
Sure you can.  Neither the Bible nor Christian history give a clear answer on the moral status of fetuses.


Not true.

One can easily find multiple and varied Christian condemnations of abortion from the earliest days of the Church down to the present.

How about starting with the Didache? (which though it is not in the Bible, is an Orthodox source, in fact I was just reading a Russian Orthodox Archbishops endorsement of it yesterday)

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and hundreds of millions of Christians are pro-choice.


Many who claim to be Christians now also support gay marriage, this doesn't mean there is any support for it in the Bible or Christian history.

All this shows is that 1 hour of church a week (and many who claim to be Christians don't even go that much) is not enough to combat living the other 167 hours in a secular society.


The above really shows the importance, for the Christian, of spending as much time outside of church as is possible in prayer, meditation (in the sense of rational thought concerning Christian teaching) and reading spiritual books.


If one does not do the preceding, and thinks it is enough to go to church 2 or 3 times a month, than we should not wonder that many such people wind up taking up secular values.  If one lives an almost entirely secular life, one will likely espouse secular values.


  


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To say homo sapiens, is to say Homo religiosus; there is no man without God. ~Frithjof Schuon
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Limey.
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Re: Interesting opinion piece
Reply #36 - May 26th, 2018 at 6:01pm
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Frank did you see my pm about a novel you’d like?
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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Seawolf
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Re: Interesting opinion piece
Reply #37 - May 26th, 2018 at 7:41pm
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Frank1 wrote on May 26th, 2018 at 11:55am:
Not true.

One can easily find multiple and varied Christian condemnations of abortion from the earliest days of the Church down to the present.

How about starting with the Didache? (which though it is not in the Bible, is an Orthodox source, in fact I was just reading a Russian Orthodox Archbishops endorsement of it yesterday)


Many who claim to be Christians now also support gay marriage, this doesn't mean there is any support for it in the Bible or Christian history.

All this shows is that 1 hour of church a week (and many who claim to be Christians don't even go that much) is not enough to combat living the other 167 hours in a secular society.


The above really shows the importance, for the Christian, of spending as much time outside of church as is possible in prayer, meditation (in the sense of rational thought concerning Christian teaching) and reading spiritual books.


If one does not do the preceding, and thinks it is enough to go to church 2 or 3 times a month, than we should not wonder that many such people wind up taking up secular values.  If one lives an almost entirely secular life, one will likely espouse secular values.



Well said and spot on.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Interesting opinion piece
Reply #38 - May 27th, 2018 at 4:18am
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The arrogance of some is just unbelievable... one would never guess by their tone that they're referring to an old book written by some unknown nutballs thousands of years ago...
  

When Q hears gallop noises he doesn't think zebras; he thinks there's a Democrat behind a curtain, making gallop noises.
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Seawolf
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Re: Interesting opinion piece
Reply #39 - May 27th, 2018 at 9:32am
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BowHunter wrote on May 27th, 2018 at 4:18am:
The arrogance of some is just unbelievable... one would never guess by their tone that they're referring to an old book written by some unknown nutballs thousands of years ago...

You seem very infatuated by this book based on your constant remarks.  For instance, I have no desire or willingness to chase atheist all over the forum about some book written by some atheist about their foolish belief that we came into existence by pure chance.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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