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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) In Today's CDN (Cognitive Dissonance News) (Read 566 times)
Maestro
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Re: In Today's CDN (Cognitive Dissonance News)
Reply #20 - May 15th, 2018 at 5:38pm
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Queshank wrote on May 15th, 2018 at 5:14pm:
Absolutely. 

However I would argue that simplicity works better for the far right.  And sadly, that same simplicity now seems to be working for the mainstream left.  Not the far left.  Just ... the left.


I'm not sure it works better for the far right. I've heard very simplistic arguments made against the Right all my life. Not all arguments against the Right, of course. Just the popular, easy to remember ones. They are that the Right is:

1. Racist
2. Greedy
3. Stupid

And yes, they came from mainstream Leftists as well as the far Left.

Then again, you didn't say the far Right used it more, just that it works better for them. You might be right, there. Calling Reagan and G. W. Bush those three things (and I would argue that 99% of the memorable attacks against them other than the Iraq War came down to those three things) didn't stop them from winning a second term. I'll have to think on that.

Quote:
That is what chills my spine.

Seeing the effect this simplistic rhetoric is having on people on the left scares me while I watch them challenge liberal principles all over the place.  Spotify is currently banning artists with sexist lyrics.  The crappity smacking Beatles have a song about literally killing a woman if she cheats on him.  Ban the Beatles next?  Ultraviolet, a feminist organization, is calling for Spotify to also ban Eminem, the Red Hot Chili Peppers, Steven Tyler and Don Henley from the Eagles for crying out loud.

Being so easily manipulated and led around by propaganda like this has me worried about where the left ends up.  And I actually think that's scarier than the worst thing Trump is likely to do.  Like this "muslim" ban.

Queshank


I'm a little hesitant to agree with a recent thread started by Stu, but I think there is a great deal of truth to the fact that the Left (at least those who are in the public eye) were completely, 100% floored by the 2016 election. In my lifetime, there has never been such a huge upset where 1 person was guaranteed to lose. Not "all but" guaranteed, but actually guaranteed to lose who managed to pull it off. They were humiliated and that humiliation is destroying them.

As bizarre as this sounds, they should take a page out of Nixon's book. Say what you will, but that dude didn't let humiliation stop him. He clawed and scraped his way back from the biggest political humiliation in American history (and arguably the second and third as well in his losses in the 1960s). If he blamed everyone else, he tended to do it behind closed doors and he still didn't let it stop him.
« Last Edit: May 15th, 2018 at 7:22pm by Maestro »  



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Re: In Today's CDN (Cognitive Dissonance News)
Reply #21 - May 15th, 2018 at 5:49pm
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Queshank wrote on May 15th, 2018 at 5:33pm:
Does that make it so?

Donald Trump isn't lying here Mojo?

Does Donald Trump speak and the Word constructs reality?

Simply because Donald Trump spouts his bullshit, Saudi Arabia is no longer the birthplace of Islam?

Queshank



Sometimes, the red meat is just that, steak and ketchup. :/

To me, he's merely playing to the base and trying to please them. He won, they want it and he's trying to deliver. Good for them. What about the rest of us? We wait and cast our ballots. I'm down with that. Maybe he's playing me (and those like me) with his 3D political chess but if he is, he's way smarter than he appears. But I doubt it.

I understand your POV is one of criticizing the left and not one of pimping for Trump. You won't find me accusing you of defending him or cheering him on as your posts make that obvious. IMO, his biggest asset and best defense is his ability to distract, repeatedly. In that sense he's mastered the art of being the center of attention, say what he wants, regardless of truth, AND still avoid being held to account. Just says or does something else offensive and the previous offense is forgotten. It's simple and effective. 3D chess? Meh. 

  

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Re: In Today's CDN (Cognitive Dissonance News)
Reply #22 - May 16th, 2018 at 8:55am
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Maestro wrote on May 15th, 2018 at 5:38pm:
I'm not sure it works better for the far right. I've heard very simplistic arguments made against the Right all my life. Not all arguments against the Right, of course. Just the popular, easy to remember ones. They are that the Right is:

1. Racist
2. Greedy
3. Stupid

And yes, they came from mainstream Leftists as well as the far Left.


I should amend my initial comment to what I really mean.

However I used to think that simplicity works better for the far right.

Quote:
Then again, you didn't say the far Right used it more, just that it works better for them. You might be right, there. Calling Reagan and G. W. Bush those three things (and I would argue that 99% of the memorable attacks against them other than the Iraq War came down to those three things) didn't stop them from winning a second term. I'll have to think on that.


We are kind of talking about two different things and that's because I'm being sloppy and dismissive of the far left and far right in my post.

When we talk about simplistic arguments, I'm thinking specifically of arguments with zero merit that resonate.  You and I could probably fill 20 pages of this thread with a discussion about racism, greed and stupidity on the right and I could provide you numerous examples of those qualities on the right to argue my case.

I'm talking about the fact that today, all someone has to do is say "Donald Trump fukked a goat" and the left will believe it.  Not just the far left, but the entire left will start making charges of bestiality at Trump. 

Facebook will be filled with Trump/goat memes from Occupy Democrats and Moveon.org. 

Memes speculating that Melania is actually a goat in disguise will dominate.

Stephen Colbert will fill half his monologue with jokes about Donald Trump and goats.

The New York Times will publish a 2,000 word speculative article filled with innuendo about that time Donald Trump was visiting his golf course in Scotland and spent time in a barn for waaaaay longer than the average amount of time someone spends in a barn.

MSNBC will have an ex CIA department official on to explain how the word "prostitute" in Russian can have a secondary meaning of "goat" so it is actually possible the Russian who gave Steele the information said Trump had goats pee on him and Steele assumed he was talking about slang for prostitute.

And Chris Cillizza at CNN will write an article "The 5 most shocking things about Donald Trump and Goats." 

IT ALL ADDS UP MAESTRO DON'T YOU SEE YOU CLUELESS RUBE?  DONALD TRUMP FUKKS GOATS!  YOU ALL VOTED FOR A GOAT FUKKER ARE YOU READY TO ADMIT YOU MADE A MISTAKE YET? YOU'RE ALL SUCH STUPID GOAT FUKKERS!

The mainstreaming of fringe lunatic thought is what I'm referencing Maestro.  I never saw that happen on the right to the degree it has happened on the left.  There are moderate Republicans who don't believe Obama was a secret Muslim born in Kenya.  There are no moderate Democrats who don't believe every salacious rumor and innuendo about Trump.

Quote:
I'm a little hesitant to agree with a recent thread started by Stu, but I think there is a great deal of truth to the fact that the Left (at least those who are in the public eye) were completely, 100% floored by the 2016 election. In my lifetime, there has never been such a huge upset where 1 person was guaranteed to lose. Not "all but" guaranteed, but actually guaranteed to lose who managed to pull it off. They were humiliated and that humiliation is destroying them.


Even a racist clock like Stu is alt-right twice a day.  (I stole that.)

Stu is completely right as much as it pains me to admit it.  From the inside, I watched as the feverish pitch reached a crescendo during the campaign.  As the left became more and more susceptible to propaganda.  As they looked for any means possible to rationalize how they could all be so wrong.  People don't like to admit they're wrong.  And this was a pretty damn big one to get so wrong.  So there simply HAS to be another explanation!  Before long the left will all be Christians believing Trump is the anti-Christ and Lord of Lies.  It's the only explanation for how he became president if the Russian collusion conspiracy theory doesn't pan out.  Because don't you see Maestro?  There's NO ... WAY ... the left could be wrong.  They're REALLY super smart!

Quote:
As bizarre as this sounds, they should take a page out of Nixon's book. Say what you will, but that dude didn't let humiliation stop him. He clawed and scraped his way back from the biggest political humiliation in American history (and arguably the second and third as well in his losses in the 1960s). If he blamed everyone else, he tended to do it behind closed doors and he still didn't let it stop him.


They should take a page out of Trump's book.  Because he does the same thing.  He doesn't let humiliation stop him.  He moves on as if it never happened.  His fall from grace in the 90s was spectacular.  He just moved on and clawed his way back into the limelight.  He's been doing it his entire life.

But no.  The Democrats have people like Hillary.  Lose and then spend 2 years traveling the world pissing and moaning about it.

Queshank
  

BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
I am not aware of any article
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Re: In Today's CDN (Cognitive Dissonance News)
Reply #23 - May 16th, 2018 at 9:00am
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Quote:
I'm talking about the fact that today, all someone has to do is say "Donald Trump fukked a goat" and the left will believe it.  Not just the far left, but the entire left will start making charges of bestiality at Trump. 


Nonsense, Q.

We'd need to see the results of the rape kit.

Or, the Moscow zoo tape.


  

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Queshank
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Re: In Today's CDN (Cognitive Dissonance News)
Reply #24 - May 16th, 2018 at 9:12am
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Mojo-Jojo wrote on May 15th, 2018 at 5:49pm:
Sometimes, the red meat is just that, steak and ketchup. :/

To me, he's merely playing to the base and trying to please them. He won, they want it and he's trying to deliver. Good for them. What about the rest of us? We wait and cast our ballots. I'm down with that. Maybe he's playing me (and those like me) with his 3D political chess but if he is, he's way smarter than he appears. But I doubt it.


Trump is way smarter than he appears.  It continually astonishes me how ready and willing the left is to dismiss this guy and underestimate him.  It's their biggest weak spot IMO.  It's diehard partisanship at its finest.

Just read an article like this and think about the fact that Trump is a con man.  He's playing the long game Mojo.  Trump charmed a room of 50 senators.  You think an idiot can do that?  Could Bush Jr pull something like that off?  How many people in US history ... hell in world history ... have walked into a political party and instead of adopting the political party's ideas, force the entire party to adopt theirs?  Do you all have no sense of history to understand what you're dealing with here?

Trump gives senators lesson on how to filibuster

The fireworks-free meeting marked another step in Trump’s takeover of the Republican Party, where his internal critics are increasingly shying away from direct confrontation with him.

*****

Trump came equipped with jokes to disarm his critics. He thanked all the senators in the room for their well-wishes for first lady Melania Trump after her medical procedure this week, cracking that her poll numbers are so good that he’s told her not to challenge him in the 2020 election, according to a source familiar with the meeting.

*****

“It was sort of a rapid-fire delivery. He was probably at his best,” said Pat Roberts (R-Kan.), often judged by his colleagues as one of the funniest senators.


Quote:
I understand your POV is one of criticizing the left and not one of pimping for Trump. You won't find me accusing you of defending him or cheering him on as your posts make that obvious. IMO, his biggest asset and best defense is his ability to distract, repeatedly. In that sense he's mastered the art of being the center of attention, say what he wants, regardless of truth, AND still avoid being held to account. Just says or does something else offensive and the previous offense is forgotten. It's simple and effective. 3D chess? Meh. 


How do you imagine an idiot can get away with that Mojo?

I'm not just criticizing the left for being stupid.

I've been repeatedly, since before the election when I was saying "He's going to win you guys, wake the crappity smack up" ... pointing out that one of Trump's most useful weapons against the left is the fact that they don't understand him.  And because they don't understand him they don't understand his dangerous appeal. 

And when I say dangerous I mean ... I know some leftists who were Bernie supporters and voted Hillary in resignation who are starting to defect to Trump.  I think Trump is more carnival barker than Hitler wannabe.  I mean dangerous because I think he is going to grow increasingly popular.  His style is water wearing down stone.

Queshank
  

BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
I am not aware of any article
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Re: In Today's CDN (Cognitive Dissonance News)
Reply #25 - May 16th, 2018 at 9:27am
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Queshank wrote on May 16th, 2018 at 9:12am:
Trump is way smarter than he appears.  It continually astonishes me how ready and willing the left is to dismiss this guy and underestimate him.  It's their biggest weak spot IMO.  It's diehard partisanship at its finest.

Just read an article like this and think about the fact that Trump is a con man.  He's playing the long game Mojo.  Trump charmed a room of 50 senators.  You think an idiot can do that?  Could Bush Jr pull something like that off?  How many people in US history ... hell in world history ... have walked into a political party and instead of adopting the political party's ideas, force the entire party to adopt theirs?  Do you all have no sense of history to understand what you're dealing with here?

Trump gives senators lesson on how to filibuster

The fireworks-free meeting marked another step in Trump’s takeover of the Republican Party, where his internal critics are increasingly shying away from direct confrontation with him.

*****

Trump came equipped with jokes to disarm his critics. He thanked all the senators in the room for their well-wishes for first lady Melania Trump after her medical procedure this week, cracking that her poll numbers are so good that he’s told her not to challenge him in the 2020 election, according to a source familiar with the meeting.

*****

“It was sort of a rapid-fire delivery. He was probably at his best,” said Pat Roberts (R-Kan.), often judged by his colleagues as one of the funniest senators.



How do you imagine an idiot can get away with that Mojo?

I'm not just criticizing the left for being stupid.

I've been repeatedly, since before the election when I was saying "He's going to win you guys, wake the crappity smack up" ... pointing out that one of Trump's most useful weapons against the left is the fact that they don't understand him.  And because they don't understand him they don't understand his dangerous appeal. 

And when I say dangerous I mean ... I know some leftists who were Bernie supporters and voted Hillary in resignation who are starting to defect to Trump.  I think Trump is more carnival barker than Hitler wannabe.  I mean dangerous because I think he is going to grow increasingly popular.  His style is water wearing down stone.

Queshank


And more importantly Mojo, I've been observing for the past couple years how vulnerable the left is to being shaped in response to Trump.  They will sacrifice any of their principles.  Our most important right, and one that has been the responsibility of liberals to champion since time immemorial is freedom of speech.  Yet it seems like almost daily I'm seeing examples of the left arguing freedom of speech is overrated and dangerous.  I provided two examples of it right here in this thread.

Queshank
  

BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
I am not aware of any article
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Re: In Today's CDN (Cognitive Dissonance News)
Reply #26 - May 16th, 2018 at 3:09pm
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Ulysses wrote on May 16th, 2018 at 9:00am:
Nonsense, Q.

We'd need to see the results of the rape kit.

Or, the Moscow zoo tape.




So, if we replace "goat" with "Stormy Daniels", you will need to see a rape kit or a tape to believe that?

Or do you already believe that one?
  
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Re: In Today's CDN (Cognitive Dissonance News)
Reply #27 - May 16th, 2018 at 4:48pm
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wyattstorch2004 wrote on May 16th, 2018 at 3:09pm:
So, if we replace "goat" with "Stormy Daniels", you will need to see a rape kit or a tape to believe that?

Or do you already believe that one?


In your world, can goats talk?

Can they sign NDA's?

Hold interviews with social media?

Accept hush money?

?

  

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Re: In Today's CDN (Cognitive Dissonance News)
Reply #28 - May 16th, 2018 at 5:09pm
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Does anybody have any insights into how something can legitimately be construed as unconstitutional based on religious grounds when the home country and most important region of said religion isn't even affected?

Asking for a friend.

Queshank
  

BowHunter wrote on Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:24am:
I am not aware of any article
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Re: In Today's CDN (Cognitive Dissonance News)
Reply #29 - May 16th, 2018 at 5:53pm
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Queshank wrote on May 16th, 2018 at 5:09pm:
Does anybody have any insights into how something can legitimately be construed as unconstitutional based on religious grounds when the home country and most important region of said religion isn't even affected?

Asking for a friend.

Queshank


Why are other country's citizens banned?

Is it because they're Muslim?

If so, WTF does it matter that SA isn't banned?

A ban on people, based on their religion, is a ban on people, based on their religion. Banning Catholics, except from the Vatican, is still a ban on Catholics. Providing an exception, based on geography, is just an exception...based on geography!
  

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